"The Lonely Crowd" is based on a distinction between a deep real self
and a false self which is created as one inacts the demands of
conformity. This is the standard critique of everyday life that was
being made in the US by social scientists during the 1950s. I can see
how you could call this deep, real self "dasein" and that conforming
self "das mann".
One of the things I think Foucault is doing is trying to render
problematic this easy distinction between a deep, private self and a
public self which is constructed through meeting the demands of what
Foucault would call discipline. I see Foucault as arguing that the
self is purely performative. That is to say, purely shaped by
practices which create the self, sometimes as a normalized conforming
self and sometimes as a site of resistence to discipline. Yet even
resistence is constructed out of resources provided by the culture.
Discipline goes all the way down to the core of a person. There is
nothing deeper than our responses both positive and negative to
discipline.
I don't see Riesman's book or similar works as tools for someone
who wants to define the real zone of practical freedom available under
the current regime of discipline. Critiquing whatever demands of
discipline disturb one from the point of view of a deep natural self
which is in some way violated by these demands misses the point that
we are constituted as well as constrained by a discipline which goes
all the way down.
Kierkegaard told a story about a peasant who went to a wedding
wearing his best colthes. Wearing not his usual but bright yellow
stockings. He got royally drunk at the wedding and pasted out in the
middle of the road while walking home. He was awakened in the morning
by a fellow in a cart saying "move those legs or I'll run them over".
The peasant looked down, did not recognise his legs and replied "go
ahead, their not mine". Riesman reminds me of that peasant.
---Matthew Thrond <mthrond@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I realized I didn't answer your question. Dasein, I think, means the
> authentic self (as opposed to das Mann, the public self). As a tool
of
> social inquiry, don't you think David Riesman's The Lonely Crowd
(circa
> 1950) constitutes an attempt to make the idea work, whether in fact
> Riesman uses those terms or not?
>
> MT
>
>
>
>
> >From owner-foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sun Jan 17 14:56:39
1999
> >Received: (from domo@localhost) by lists.village.virginia.edu
> (8.8.5/8.6.6) id RAA28764 for foucault-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999
> 17:22:21 -0500
> >X-Authentication-Warning: lists.village.virginia.edu: domo set
sender
> to owner-foucault@localhost using -f
> >Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (krueger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [128.138.151.62]) by lists.village.virginia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with
ESMTP
> id RAA30805 for <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sun, 17 Jan
1999
> 17:22:09 -0500
> >Received: from localhost (krueger@localhost)
> > by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA18284
> > for <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sun, 17 Jan 1999
15:22:07
> -0700 (MST)
> >Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:22:06 -0700 (MST)
> >From: Krueger <Patrick.Krueger@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Dasien, a question
> >In-Reply-To: <19990117210412.5760.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Message-ID:
> <Pine.GSO.4.05.9901171509090.18025-100000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Sender: owner-foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Precedence: bulk
> >Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >Do you mind if I ask you a question?
> >
> >I have recently become interested in the idea of "Dasein" (after
> >Heidegger) as a possible method or perspective for inquiry into
social
> >phenomena.
> >
> >The introduction by Dreyfus in Foucault's "Mental Illness and
> Psychology"
> >indicated that 1) Foucault used this method as a critique of
> >psychoanalysis, and 2) this work was not necessarily typical of
> Foucalt's
> >later works. Not being very familiar with Foucault I'm not sure
what
> to
> >make of that disclaimer, but the idea interests me nonetheless,...
> >
> >So first of all, does anyone know of a good accessable description
of
> the
> >concept of Dasein, and second, does anyone know of a few good works
by
> any
> >author that demonstrates the use of this Dasein in practice?
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >PMK
> >
> >"Why no officer, that isn't my smoking gun in my hand. Why do you
> ask?"
> >
> > --Onan, son of Judah (Gen 38:9)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
==
"I am no doubt not the only one who writes in order to have no face. Do not ask me who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our papers are in order." Michel Foucault
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
and a false self which is created as one inacts the demands of
conformity. This is the standard critique of everyday life that was
being made in the US by social scientists during the 1950s. I can see
how you could call this deep, real self "dasein" and that conforming
self "das mann".
One of the things I think Foucault is doing is trying to render
problematic this easy distinction between a deep, private self and a
public self which is constructed through meeting the demands of what
Foucault would call discipline. I see Foucault as arguing that the
self is purely performative. That is to say, purely shaped by
practices which create the self, sometimes as a normalized conforming
self and sometimes as a site of resistence to discipline. Yet even
resistence is constructed out of resources provided by the culture.
Discipline goes all the way down to the core of a person. There is
nothing deeper than our responses both positive and negative to
discipline.
I don't see Riesman's book or similar works as tools for someone
who wants to define the real zone of practical freedom available under
the current regime of discipline. Critiquing whatever demands of
discipline disturb one from the point of view of a deep natural self
which is in some way violated by these demands misses the point that
we are constituted as well as constrained by a discipline which goes
all the way down.
Kierkegaard told a story about a peasant who went to a wedding
wearing his best colthes. Wearing not his usual but bright yellow
stockings. He got royally drunk at the wedding and pasted out in the
middle of the road while walking home. He was awakened in the morning
by a fellow in a cart saying "move those legs or I'll run them over".
The peasant looked down, did not recognise his legs and replied "go
ahead, their not mine". Riesman reminds me of that peasant.
---Matthew Thrond <mthrond@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I realized I didn't answer your question. Dasein, I think, means the
> authentic self (as opposed to das Mann, the public self). As a tool
of
> social inquiry, don't you think David Riesman's The Lonely Crowd
(circa
> 1950) constitutes an attempt to make the idea work, whether in fact
> Riesman uses those terms or not?
>
> MT
>
>
>
>
> >From owner-foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sun Jan 17 14:56:39
1999
> >Received: (from domo@localhost) by lists.village.virginia.edu
> (8.8.5/8.6.6) id RAA28764 for foucault-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999
> 17:22:21 -0500
> >X-Authentication-Warning: lists.village.virginia.edu: domo set
sender
> to owner-foucault@localhost using -f
> >Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (krueger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [128.138.151.62]) by lists.village.virginia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with
ESMTP
> id RAA30805 for <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sun, 17 Jan
1999
> 17:22:09 -0500
> >Received: from localhost (krueger@localhost)
> > by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA18284
> > for <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Sun, 17 Jan 1999
15:22:07
> -0700 (MST)
> >Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:22:06 -0700 (MST)
> >From: Krueger <Patrick.Krueger@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Dasien, a question
> >In-Reply-To: <19990117210412.5760.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Message-ID:
> <Pine.GSO.4.05.9901171509090.18025-100000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Sender: owner-foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Precedence: bulk
> >Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >Do you mind if I ask you a question?
> >
> >I have recently become interested in the idea of "Dasein" (after
> >Heidegger) as a possible method or perspective for inquiry into
social
> >phenomena.
> >
> >The introduction by Dreyfus in Foucault's "Mental Illness and
> Psychology"
> >indicated that 1) Foucault used this method as a critique of
> >psychoanalysis, and 2) this work was not necessarily typical of
> Foucalt's
> >later works. Not being very familiar with Foucault I'm not sure
what
> to
> >make of that disclaimer, but the idea interests me nonetheless,...
> >
> >So first of all, does anyone know of a good accessable description
of
> the
> >concept of Dasein, and second, does anyone know of a few good works
by
> any
> >author that demonstrates the use of this Dasein in practice?
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >PMK
> >
> >"Why no officer, that isn't my smoking gun in my hand. Why do you
> ask?"
> >
> > --Onan, son of Judah (Gen 38:9)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
==
"I am no doubt not the only one who writes in order to have no face. Do not ask me who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our papers are in order." Michel Foucault
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com