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Just joined. Might as well dive in. Wasn't Doug's point that those with =
economic and military power are immune to having their violations of =
human rights punished? Isn't the main point that some states are truly =
sovereign in the sense that they can act almost with impunity toward =
other ostensibly sovereign states without fear of repercussion (save for =
perhaps a hand slapping by the U.N.)? Wasn't his intent to point out =
that to make the war in Yugoslavia predominantly an issue of violations =
of human rights is to elide the WHO is being punished for such =
violations and WHO is doing the punishing?
=20
Brad
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: J. Ransom <dickins@xxxxxx>
To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =
<foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Kosova
=20
=20
Once again the hoary principle of non-contradiction raises its . . . =
hoary head. Doug Henwood's argument below is like the response we got =
from parents and others as youths: "Well, what if everybody did that?" =
(smoked, refused to go to school, etc.), only reversed; that is, "Well, =
if you bomb Yugoslavia because there are violations of human rights =
there, why aren't you bombing every place in the world where human =
rights violations occur?" And we should be bombing everyplace in the =
world because we want to be consistent?? Or, if we are unable to be =
consistent by bombing all violators of human rights we should refuse -- =
on grounds of fairness? our love of logic? -- to bomb any violators?
=20
It seems to me that this logic is one that is favorable to violators =
of human rights everywhere. For by forbidding us from acting on =
violations of human rights in one place unless and until we oppose them =
(at the same time and in the same way) wherever they occur, critics of =
this kind raise the practical bar far too high for any state or =
combination of states to do much of anything.
=20
-- John
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Doug Henwood=20
To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kosova
=20
=20
tony ralph wrote:
=20
>On my part, I support ineffective bombing by war mongering =
hypocrits,
>because its better than nothing.
=20
So you advocate a bombing campaign against Britain for 800 years =
of abusing
Ireland; against Indonesia, for the East Timorese; against =
Turkey, for the
Kurds; and against the U.S., for crimes ranging from the =
genocide directed
against its indigenous populations to the sanctions-induced =
deaths of about
a million Iraqis since the Gulf War, with the murder of a couple =
of million
Indochinese sandwiched in between?
=20
Doug
=20
--
=20
Doug Henwood
Left Business Observer
250 W 85 St
New York NY 10024-3217 USA
+1-212-874-4020 voice +1-603-506-6212 fax
email: <mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx>
web: <http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html>
=20
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Just joined. Might as well dive in. =
Wasn't=20
Doug's point that those with economic and military power are immune to =
having=20
their violations of human rights punished? Isn't the main point that =
some states=20
are truly sovereign in the sense that they can act almost with impunity =
toward=20
other ostensibly sovereign states without fear of repercussion (save for =
perhaps=20
a hand slapping by the U.N.)? Wasn't his intent to point out that to =
make the=20
war in Yugoslavia predominantly an issue of violations of human rights =
is to=20
elide the WHO is being punished for such violations and WHO is doing the =
punishing?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Brad</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>J. Ransom <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:dickins@xxxxxx";>dickins@xxxxxx</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>foucault@lists.villag=
e.virginia.edu</A>=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>foucault@lists.villag=
e.virginia.edu</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
</B>Tuesday, May 11, 1999 11:39 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re:=20
Kosova<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Once again the hoary =
principle of=20
non-contradiction raises its . . . hoary head. Doug Henwood's =
argument below=20
is like the response we got from parents and others as youths: =
"Well,=20
what if everybody did that?" (smoked, refused to go to school, =
etc.),=20
only reversed; that is, "Well, if you bomb Yugoslavia because =
there are=20
violations of human rights there, why aren't you bombing every place =
in the=20
world where human rights violations occur?" And we should be =
bombing=20
everyplace in the world because we want to be consistent?? Or, if we =
are=20
unable to be consistent by bombing all violators of human rights we =
should=20
refuse -- on grounds of fairness? our love of logic? -- to bomb any=20
violators?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>It seems to me that this =
logic is one=20
that is favorable to violators of human rights everywhere. For by =
forbidding=20
us from acting on violations of human rights in one place unless and =
until=20
we oppose them (at the same time and in the same way) wherever they =
occur,=20
critics of this kind raise the practical bar far too high for any =
state or=20
combination of states to do much of anything.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>-- John</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx"; =
title=3Ddhenwood@xxxxxxxxx>Doug=20
Henwood</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"=20
=
title=3Dfoucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>foucault@lists.village.virgin=
ia.edu</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 11, =
1999 2:59=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Kosova</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>tony ralph wrote:<BR><BR>>On my part, I =
support=20
ineffective bombing by war mongering hypocrits,<BR>>because =
its=20
better than nothing.<BR><BR>So you advocate a bombing campaign =
against=20
Britain for 800 years of abusing<BR>Ireland; against Indonesia, =
for the=20
East Timorese; against Turkey, for the<BR>Kurds; and against the =
U.S.,=20
for crimes ranging from the genocide directed<BR>against its =
indigenous=20
populations to the sanctions-induced deaths of about<BR>a =
million Iraqis=20
since the Gulf War, with the murder of a couple of=20
million<BR>Indochinese sandwiched in=20
between?<BR><BR>Doug<BR><BR>--<BR><BR>Doug Henwood<BR>Left =
Business=20
Observer<BR>250 W 85 St<BR>New York NY 10024-3217 =
USA<BR>+1-212-874-4020=20
voice +1-603-506-6212 fax<BR>email: <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx";>mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>w=
eb:=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html";>http://www.panix.co=
m/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>
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Just joined. Might as well dive in. Wasn't Doug's point that those with =
economic and military power are immune to having their violations of =
human rights punished? Isn't the main point that some states are truly =
sovereign in the sense that they can act almost with impunity toward =
other ostensibly sovereign states without fear of repercussion (save for =
perhaps a hand slapping by the U.N.)? Wasn't his intent to point out =
that to make the war in Yugoslavia predominantly an issue of violations =
of human rights is to elide the WHO is being punished for such =
violations and WHO is doing the punishing?
=20
Brad
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: J. Ransom <dickins@xxxxxx>
To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =
<foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Kosova
=20
=20
Once again the hoary principle of non-contradiction raises its . . . =
hoary head. Doug Henwood's argument below is like the response we got =
from parents and others as youths: "Well, what if everybody did that?" =
(smoked, refused to go to school, etc.), only reversed; that is, "Well, =
if you bomb Yugoslavia because there are violations of human rights =
there, why aren't you bombing every place in the world where human =
rights violations occur?" And we should be bombing everyplace in the =
world because we want to be consistent?? Or, if we are unable to be =
consistent by bombing all violators of human rights we should refuse -- =
on grounds of fairness? our love of logic? -- to bomb any violators?
=20
It seems to me that this logic is one that is favorable to violators =
of human rights everywhere. For by forbidding us from acting on =
violations of human rights in one place unless and until we oppose them =
(at the same time and in the same way) wherever they occur, critics of =
this kind raise the practical bar far too high for any state or =
combination of states to do much of anything.
=20
-- John
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Doug Henwood=20
To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kosova
=20
=20
tony ralph wrote:
=20
>On my part, I support ineffective bombing by war mongering =
hypocrits,
>because its better than nothing.
=20
So you advocate a bombing campaign against Britain for 800 years =
of abusing
Ireland; against Indonesia, for the East Timorese; against =
Turkey, for the
Kurds; and against the U.S., for crimes ranging from the =
genocide directed
against its indigenous populations to the sanctions-induced =
deaths of about
a million Iraqis since the Gulf War, with the murder of a couple =
of million
Indochinese sandwiched in between?
=20
Doug
=20
--
=20
Doug Henwood
Left Business Observer
250 W 85 St
New York NY 10024-3217 USA
+1-212-874-4020 voice +1-603-506-6212 fax
email: <mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx>
web: <http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html>
=20
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<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Just joined. Might as well dive in. =
Wasn't=20
Doug's point that those with economic and military power are immune to =
having=20
their violations of human rights punished? Isn't the main point that =
some states=20
are truly sovereign in the sense that they can act almost with impunity =
toward=20
other ostensibly sovereign states without fear of repercussion (save for =
perhaps=20
a hand slapping by the U.N.)? Wasn't his intent to point out that to =
make the=20
war in Yugoslavia predominantly an issue of violations of human rights =
is to=20
elide the WHO is being punished for such violations and WHO is doing the =
punishing?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Brad</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>J. Ransom <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:dickins@xxxxxx";>dickins@xxxxxx</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>foucault@lists.villag=
e.virginia.edu</A>=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>foucault@lists.villag=
e.virginia.edu</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
</B>Tuesday, May 11, 1999 11:39 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re:=20
Kosova<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Once again the hoary =
principle of=20
non-contradiction raises its . . . hoary head. Doug Henwood's =
argument below=20
is like the response we got from parents and others as youths: =
"Well,=20
what if everybody did that?" (smoked, refused to go to school, =
etc.),=20
only reversed; that is, "Well, if you bomb Yugoslavia because =
there are=20
violations of human rights there, why aren't you bombing every place =
in the=20
world where human rights violations occur?" And we should be =
bombing=20
everyplace in the world because we want to be consistent?? Or, if we =
are=20
unable to be consistent by bombing all violators of human rights we =
should=20
refuse -- on grounds of fairness? our love of logic? -- to bomb any=20
violators?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>It seems to me that this =
logic is one=20
that is favorable to violators of human rights everywhere. For by =
forbidding=20
us from acting on violations of human rights in one place unless and =
until=20
we oppose them (at the same time and in the same way) wherever they =
occur,=20
critics of this kind raise the practical bar far too high for any =
state or=20
combination of states to do much of anything.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>-- John</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx"; =
title=3Ddhenwood@xxxxxxxxx>Doug=20
Henwood</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"=20
=
title=3Dfoucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>foucault@lists.village.virgin=
ia.edu</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 11, =
1999 2:59=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Kosova</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>tony ralph wrote:<BR><BR>>On my part, I =
support=20
ineffective bombing by war mongering hypocrits,<BR>>because =
its=20
better than nothing.<BR><BR>So you advocate a bombing campaign =
against=20
Britain for 800 years of abusing<BR>Ireland; against Indonesia, =
for the=20
East Timorese; against Turkey, for the<BR>Kurds; and against the =
U.S.,=20
for crimes ranging from the genocide directed<BR>against its =
indigenous=20
populations to the sanctions-induced deaths of about<BR>a =
million Iraqis=20
since the Gulf War, with the murder of a couple of=20
million<BR>Indochinese sandwiched in=20
between?<BR><BR>Doug<BR><BR>--<BR><BR>Doug Henwood<BR>Left =
Business=20
Observer<BR>250 W 85 St<BR>New York NY 10024-3217 =
USA<BR>+1-212-874-4020=20
voice +1-603-506-6212 fax<BR>email: <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx";>mailto:dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>w=
eb:=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html";>http://www.panix.co=
m/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>
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