Op 13-apr-97 schreef John Ransom:
>On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Doug Henwood wrote:
>> John Ransom wrote:
>>
>> >In other words, the limit and transgression both get their being from each
>> >other. If that's the case, then it's a mistake to think of them as radical
>> >opposites, or as mere excuses for each other.
>>
>> That seems obvious and non-controversial. But what I've read of F and what
>> I've seen on this list is mostly very abstract. Could we put some flesh on
>> this? What limits, transgressed how?
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>Some examples:
the problem i have with these 'politically correct' campustalk examples is the
subject doesn't change by the transgression. it simply does what it thinks it
has to do, carrying out its political ideals and remaining the same to itself
and others troughout the transgression.
for me a simple and good example of a transgression is that of someone who
conscioussly eats meat after having been a vegetarian for ten years or more.
this transgression changes the selfimage of the subject radically and there is
no going back. of course adultery is another powerful example.
it seems to me that the relation between the trangression and the limit is
mediated by the seductive face of the limit. the possibility of transgression
must be fascinating. i remember that as a child used to play with limits,
telling myself some terrible accident would happen to me if i wouldn't be able
to walk ten yards in a certain way. this is the fascination of keeping the
limits, transgression is the other fascination of the limit, the promise of a
metanoia, of being reborn. i think this is celebrated in most 'rite the
passage'.
may i suggest another recent example of multiple transgression: the british
rock group 'rock bitch'? they are i think four women and one man. the man is
the drummer and doesnot take part in the act. the women are practically nude
and have several sexual orgasms each while they're making their music, induced
by themselves, each other and some invited members of the audience, in all
possible ways. their show has been occasionally forbidden, but most of the
time they have a full house.
transgressions:
1) sexual orgasm as a subjective and internal experience becomes a public
display
2) cynical: transgresssion of the limit between private acts and public acts
3) the double transgression of the whore: spontaneous emotional behaviour
becomes scheduled performence and payed work
4) transgression of the balance between musical element and show element in
rock music
5) transgression of the border between respectable artist, as a rolemodel and
'sunk' pornostar
6) transgression of the border between art and lustbehaviour
7) transgression of the esthetic into sexual stimulation
there might be more transgressions.
i think some interesting questions would be:
- how regular can transgression be, can you repeat a transgression?
- can transgression become routine, predictable?
- what limits does western culture put on transgression?
- is every transgression a contribution to personal growth, or are there
transgressions which are damaging it?
- what does transgression do to the social network
- what is the relation between transgression and religion and/or drugs?
best
erikh
>On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Doug Henwood wrote:
>> John Ransom wrote:
>>
>> >In other words, the limit and transgression both get their being from each
>> >other. If that's the case, then it's a mistake to think of them as radical
>> >opposites, or as mere excuses for each other.
>>
>> That seems obvious and non-controversial. But what I've read of F and what
>> I've seen on this list is mostly very abstract. Could we put some flesh on
>> this? What limits, transgressed how?
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>Some examples:
the problem i have with these 'politically correct' campustalk examples is the
subject doesn't change by the transgression. it simply does what it thinks it
has to do, carrying out its political ideals and remaining the same to itself
and others troughout the transgression.
for me a simple and good example of a transgression is that of someone who
conscioussly eats meat after having been a vegetarian for ten years or more.
this transgression changes the selfimage of the subject radically and there is
no going back. of course adultery is another powerful example.
it seems to me that the relation between the trangression and the limit is
mediated by the seductive face of the limit. the possibility of transgression
must be fascinating. i remember that as a child used to play with limits,
telling myself some terrible accident would happen to me if i wouldn't be able
to walk ten yards in a certain way. this is the fascination of keeping the
limits, transgression is the other fascination of the limit, the promise of a
metanoia, of being reborn. i think this is celebrated in most 'rite the
passage'.
may i suggest another recent example of multiple transgression: the british
rock group 'rock bitch'? they are i think four women and one man. the man is
the drummer and doesnot take part in the act. the women are practically nude
and have several sexual orgasms each while they're making their music, induced
by themselves, each other and some invited members of the audience, in all
possible ways. their show has been occasionally forbidden, but most of the
time they have a full house.
transgressions:
1) sexual orgasm as a subjective and internal experience becomes a public
display
2) cynical: transgresssion of the limit between private acts and public acts
3) the double transgression of the whore: spontaneous emotional behaviour
becomes scheduled performence and payed work
4) transgression of the balance between musical element and show element in
rock music
5) transgression of the border between respectable artist, as a rolemodel and
'sunk' pornostar
6) transgression of the border between art and lustbehaviour
7) transgression of the esthetic into sexual stimulation
there might be more transgressions.
i think some interesting questions would be:
- how regular can transgression be, can you repeat a transgression?
- can transgression become routine, predictable?
- what limits does western culture put on transgression?
- is every transgression a contribution to personal growth, or are there
transgressions which are damaging it?
- what does transgression do to the social network
- what is the relation between transgression and religion and/or drugs?
best
erikh