Re: Who determines that one goes to hell?

thanks, MT-- i think thanks--
for laying out so clearly=20
that whole can of worms
(if you'll pardon the =C9)

certainly more accurate to say=20
it was Calvin who=20
ratcheted-up Luther's theology.


On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:30:49 PST mthrond@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> Henry:
> Luther, wanting to avoid the corruption of the church and its=20
> >politicalization and commercialization of divine indulgence and,=20
> >ultimately, redemption, tends also to say that it is ultimately god's=20
> >choice, but he waters down calvin's ultra-logical omnipotent/omniscient=
> >being into a more loving judge who gives people a break per their=20
> >intentions and various human frailties.
> I generally agree, but naturally you are aware that Luther antedates=20
> Calvin by some period of time. If watering-down is being done, it's=20
> Calvin making the otherworldliness of Luther's vision psychologically=20
> untenable. Also, whatever flaws there are in Weber's Protestant Ethic he=
> gives a nice distinction with regard to the orientation of the self. =20
> The Lutheran self orients away from society, as had the monastery=20
> Catholic (of which Luther himself was one). The Calvinist, through a=20
> rather laborious psychological process, was forced into the world to=20
> prove his own worth to himself. Weber also notes, as he must to discuss=
> his native Germany, that even where "Lutheranism" is, most of its=20
> adherents adopted, to a greater or lesser extent, the world-view of the=
> Calvinist at a certain historical juncture. But I suspect that with=20
> Weber the religious terminology is more a code-word for the encroachment=
> of modernity and its origins rather than a truly=20
> phenomenological/hermeneutic/sociological picture of each group.=20
> MT
> >
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