Sean
The suggestion that postmodernism needs a manifesto reminds me of Lacan's
comments to a bunch of 'revolutionary' students that ' you are looking for a
master. You will get one'. (or something like that). A manifesto is
precisely what 'post-modernism' does not need and cannot have. And Foucault
did not 'apply his theories to prison reform'. Such a move is in direct
contradiction to why he was involved in these politics - the point of the
GIP was to allow prisoners to speak for themselves. Please let's not 'apply
theory' to politics - particularly regarding Foucault (and Butler for that
matter), Nothing could be more sterile - or contra the impulse of their
work.
Catherine
>From: Sean Guillory <guillory01@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: what about us
>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:41:49 -0700
>
>I've thought about this a lot also because I see aspects of Foucault's,
>Butler's et al. theories that should and need to be a part of a radical
>social movement. When I do mention these theories of social activists they
>either give me blank stare or write it off as inapplicable theory. I know
>that Foucault was active in prison reform (though I don't know the details
>of his activism). Does anyone know if/how well he applied his theories to
>those causes? Perhaps, dare I say it, post-modernism/post whatever needs a
>manifesto?
>
>Sean
>Sean Guillory
>guillory01@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>AIM: seanguill, ICQ: 75192809
>PO Box 1312
>Claremont, CA 91711-1312
>Vote Socialist! www.votesocialist.org
>
>
> > I agree with Jeremiah. More should be done to impliment the theories
>which
> > are too often only expounded within the closed framework of lists such
>as
> > this. At least for myself I feel that I am not doing enough to effect
>the
> > world within which I exist. Too much time is spent debating the best
>path
>or
> > action. Jeremiah's post reminds me of the line from Yeats' poem "The
>best
> > lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity".
>But
> > the real question is how to effect the changes we seek.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeremiah Luna" <jeremiah.luna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Foucault" <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 7:20 AM
> > Subject: what about us
> >
> >
> > > I have this to say, It seems to me that our current debate between
>Lynne
> > > Cheney's views and Foucault4s theory are fruitful to a certain degree.
> > > Between Cheney, Nussbaum, the Nation and Butler we as Foucaultian or
> > > intellectuals of some sort naturally withdrawn into our own click, our
> > > faction of leftist-intellecutal force. But the debate between the
>"post
> > > structuralist left" represented by Foucault and the Nation is maybe
> > > important for a minute or too, but in the larger scope world political
> > > events it is beside the point, since the "left" as a whole with all of
>its
> > > factions composes an extreme minority with almost no influence over
>the
> > > events of our day. And it seems to me to keep defining ourselves
>"against"
> > > this or that is a typical gesture of group identification and
> > > construction,
> > > which in the end produces yet another "sub culture" pushing for it
> > > particular view as opposed to 100 of others while missing the bigger
> > > challenges faces our era and generation.
> > >
> > > therefore I ask the question what about us
>"pspseudo-intellectuals" -just
> > > in for the hype- possessing no the academic skills to be professionals
> > > within the context of the university as a highly competitive
>capitalist
> > > "knowledge institutions". Where does our reading and education
> > > influence our daily life as citizens with our larger society? We all
>have
> > > the tendency to identify with the opinions and positions put forward
>by
> > Butler
> > > and Spivak as alternative to the Nation and god forbid Cheney or
> > > NutTree, but when I stop to think about what we really have for "real
> > > intellectual community" in Tuebingen or at Berkeley I can't exactly
>say
> > > that I am very happy. I mean sure I can go to lectures, buy books,
>sit
>in
> > > cafes trying to spark up some theory discussion here and there which
> > > often result in failure. I don't know do you guys see what I am
>getting
> > > at.
> > > Maybe what I am trying to say is this, that theory needs to be taken
>out
> > > of the university context. What about our own projects? Why are their
>not
> > > more artist colonies? why can't we situate our reading in a context
> > > outside of our professional academic career aspirations? Why are
>there
>so
> > > few reading groups advocating "postmodern vertigo"? its easy for
>Marxists
> > to
> > > complain about anarchists or post modernists to complain about
>modernists
> > > and and, but in the end we are responsible for our " theory
>subculture"
>to
> > > see that it more than just the idealization of a few big names on some
> > > unversities some where. Maybe I would be more interest in a discussion
>of
> > > our situation as "hum drum theory people" just getting by working odds
> > > jobs here and there, or at least entertaining the question how are we
> > > going to integrate our theory back round into a non academic corporate
> > > work environment? In my circles I have seen allot of really motivated
>and
> > > energetic people just . . stop talking theory, or reading, kinda
>loosing
> > > their critical perspective on things, and I think it is part due of
>the
> > fact
> > > that when one is finished with school at there is not the community
>there
> > > to drive you to it and maybe a whole host of other reasons.
> > >
> > > with kind regards
> > >
> > > Jeremiah
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________
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The suggestion that postmodernism needs a manifesto reminds me of Lacan's
comments to a bunch of 'revolutionary' students that ' you are looking for a
master. You will get one'. (or something like that). A manifesto is
precisely what 'post-modernism' does not need and cannot have. And Foucault
did not 'apply his theories to prison reform'. Such a move is in direct
contradiction to why he was involved in these politics - the point of the
GIP was to allow prisoners to speak for themselves. Please let's not 'apply
theory' to politics - particularly regarding Foucault (and Butler for that
matter), Nothing could be more sterile - or contra the impulse of their
work.
Catherine
>From: Sean Guillory <guillory01@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: what about us
>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:41:49 -0700
>
>I've thought about this a lot also because I see aspects of Foucault's,
>Butler's et al. theories that should and need to be a part of a radical
>social movement. When I do mention these theories of social activists they
>either give me blank stare or write it off as inapplicable theory. I know
>that Foucault was active in prison reform (though I don't know the details
>of his activism). Does anyone know if/how well he applied his theories to
>those causes? Perhaps, dare I say it, post-modernism/post whatever needs a
>manifesto?
>
>Sean
>Sean Guillory
>guillory01@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>AIM: seanguill, ICQ: 75192809
>PO Box 1312
>Claremont, CA 91711-1312
>Vote Socialist! www.votesocialist.org
>
>
> > I agree with Jeremiah. More should be done to impliment the theories
>which
> > are too often only expounded within the closed framework of lists such
>as
> > this. At least for myself I feel that I am not doing enough to effect
>the
> > world within which I exist. Too much time is spent debating the best
>path
>or
> > action. Jeremiah's post reminds me of the line from Yeats' poem "The
>best
> > lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity".
>But
> > the real question is how to effect the changes we seek.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeremiah Luna" <jeremiah.luna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Foucault" <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 7:20 AM
> > Subject: what about us
> >
> >
> > > I have this to say, It seems to me that our current debate between
>Lynne
> > > Cheney's views and Foucault4s theory are fruitful to a certain degree.
> > > Between Cheney, Nussbaum, the Nation and Butler we as Foucaultian or
> > > intellectuals of some sort naturally withdrawn into our own click, our
> > > faction of leftist-intellecutal force. But the debate between the
>"post
> > > structuralist left" represented by Foucault and the Nation is maybe
> > > important for a minute or too, but in the larger scope world political
> > > events it is beside the point, since the "left" as a whole with all of
>its
> > > factions composes an extreme minority with almost no influence over
>the
> > > events of our day. And it seems to me to keep defining ourselves
>"against"
> > > this or that is a typical gesture of group identification and
> > > construction,
> > > which in the end produces yet another "sub culture" pushing for it
> > > particular view as opposed to 100 of others while missing the bigger
> > > challenges faces our era and generation.
> > >
> > > therefore I ask the question what about us
>"pspseudo-intellectuals" -just
> > > in for the hype- possessing no the academic skills to be professionals
> > > within the context of the university as a highly competitive
>capitalist
> > > "knowledge institutions". Where does our reading and education
> > > influence our daily life as citizens with our larger society? We all
>have
> > > the tendency to identify with the opinions and positions put forward
>by
> > Butler
> > > and Spivak as alternative to the Nation and god forbid Cheney or
> > > NutTree, but when I stop to think about what we really have for "real
> > > intellectual community" in Tuebingen or at Berkeley I can't exactly
>say
> > > that I am very happy. I mean sure I can go to lectures, buy books,
>sit
>in
> > > cafes trying to spark up some theory discussion here and there which
> > > often result in failure. I don't know do you guys see what I am
>getting
> > > at.
> > > Maybe what I am trying to say is this, that theory needs to be taken
>out
> > > of the university context. What about our own projects? Why are their
>not
> > > more artist colonies? why can't we situate our reading in a context
> > > outside of our professional academic career aspirations? Why are
>there
>so
> > > few reading groups advocating "postmodern vertigo"? its easy for
>Marxists
> > to
> > > complain about anarchists or post modernists to complain about
>modernists
> > > and and, but in the end we are responsible for our " theory
>subculture"
>to
> > > see that it more than just the idealization of a few big names on some
> > > unversities some where. Maybe I would be more interest in a discussion
>of
> > > our situation as "hum drum theory people" just getting by working odds
> > > jobs here and there, or at least entertaining the question how are we
> > > going to integrate our theory back round into a non academic corporate
> > > work environment? In my circles I have seen allot of really motivated
>and
> > > energetic people just . . stop talking theory, or reading, kinda
>loosing
> > > their critical perspective on things, and I think it is part due of
>the
> > fact
> > > that when one is finished with school at there is not the community
>there
> > > to drive you to it and maybe a whole host of other reasons.
> > >
> > > with kind regards
> > >
> > > Jeremiah
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.