dear eldora,
this is not about yelling at somebody. i have no problem with discussing me
(middle east) politics on this list. in fact i think it is urgent and i am
very interested in ideas that can link foucauldian analysis (or other for
that sake) to the politics of the region.
also, i am not against creative attempts to link the history of ideas to
current political issues (i.e. lionel's linking up of freemasonry to the
partition of palestine). But I think such an attempt should draw on the
history of the region, on the power relations that exist, on the British
imperial discourse etc.
Randomly linking some notions of governmentality, freemasonry, mistaken
connaissance for savoir to the partition of Palestine is not very helpful
(unless you can show that these concepts are related in one way or another).
Equally, implying that every orthodox Jew is a Zionist shows a lack of
understanding.
Am I privileging a certain (knowledgeable) type of discourse of another
(random) one? Do I think that zeal is no replacement for in-depth analysis?
Yes, and I am perfectly willing to accept that charge.
So, yes, let's analyse the politics of the region, but let's have another
shot at it.
Yves
P.S. Some tea would be great, but you won't find me in England...
On 08/09/01 0:41 Uhr, "eldorra mitchell" wrote:
> -- Dear Yves you make good suggestions But Yelling at
> someone does no good. And dont be so personal. Using
> 'me' as you do is stupod. If you dont smarten up I may
> have to fly to jolly ole england and get you some tea
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Yves Winter <winter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >
> Lionel,
>>
>> Read some more history before linking ME politics to
>> Freemasonry and
>> presenting an analysis to the UN.
>>
>> Critical works on the history of the Arab-Israeli
>> conflict are not difficult
>> to come by. Check out the books of people like Simha
>> Flapan, Avi Shlaim,
>> Benny Morris, Tom Segev. They are part of what
>> Israelis call the "New
>> Historians" and provide a critical appraisal of the
>> dominant Zionist
>> narrative on the formation of Israel.
>>
>> Perhaps somebody can suggest some books written by
>> Arab authors.
>>
>> Yves
>>
>> On 05/09/01 23:30 Uhr, "Lionel Boxer" wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the historic deails. I know of
>> England's involvement in the
>>> creation of Isreal, but I never had it so
>> concisely presented. I have
>>> reflected on this and I had previously consided
>> that the English have been
>>> so wrapped up in the myths of Freemasonry since
>> the 17th century that they
>>> sought to ratify the mythology of the Old
>> Testiment.
>>>
>>> That in itself is worthy of Foucauldian analysis.
>> The gaze of the English,
>>> the governmentality (or lack of) of the region,
>> the eventualisation, the
>>> connaisance that was mistaken for savoir, the lack
>> of reparage, the
>>> remanances that sustain the tensions in the
>> region.
>>>
>>> Maybe we should present an analysis to the UN?
>>>
>>> Lionel
>>>
>>>
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send a newsletter, share photos & files, conduct polls, organize chat events.
> Visit http://in/ groups.yahoo.com
this is not about yelling at somebody. i have no problem with discussing me
(middle east) politics on this list. in fact i think it is urgent and i am
very interested in ideas that can link foucauldian analysis (or other for
that sake) to the politics of the region.
also, i am not against creative attempts to link the history of ideas to
current political issues (i.e. lionel's linking up of freemasonry to the
partition of palestine). But I think such an attempt should draw on the
history of the region, on the power relations that exist, on the British
imperial discourse etc.
Randomly linking some notions of governmentality, freemasonry, mistaken
connaissance for savoir to the partition of Palestine is not very helpful
(unless you can show that these concepts are related in one way or another).
Equally, implying that every orthodox Jew is a Zionist shows a lack of
understanding.
Am I privileging a certain (knowledgeable) type of discourse of another
(random) one? Do I think that zeal is no replacement for in-depth analysis?
Yes, and I am perfectly willing to accept that charge.
So, yes, let's analyse the politics of the region, but let's have another
shot at it.
Yves
P.S. Some tea would be great, but you won't find me in England...
On 08/09/01 0:41 Uhr, "eldorra mitchell" wrote:
> -- Dear Yves you make good suggestions But Yelling at
> someone does no good. And dont be so personal. Using
> 'me' as you do is stupod. If you dont smarten up I may
> have to fly to jolly ole england and get you some tea
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Yves Winter <winter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >
> Lionel,
>>
>> Read some more history before linking ME politics to
>> Freemasonry and
>> presenting an analysis to the UN.
>>
>> Critical works on the history of the Arab-Israeli
>> conflict are not difficult
>> to come by. Check out the books of people like Simha
>> Flapan, Avi Shlaim,
>> Benny Morris, Tom Segev. They are part of what
>> Israelis call the "New
>> Historians" and provide a critical appraisal of the
>> dominant Zionist
>> narrative on the formation of Israel.
>>
>> Perhaps somebody can suggest some books written by
>> Arab authors.
>>
>> Yves
>>
>> On 05/09/01 23:30 Uhr, "Lionel Boxer" wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the historic deails. I know of
>> England's involvement in the
>>> creation of Isreal, but I never had it so
>> concisely presented. I have
>>> reflected on this and I had previously consided
>> that the English have been
>>> so wrapped up in the myths of Freemasonry since
>> the 17th century that they
>>> sought to ratify the mythology of the Old
>> Testiment.
>>>
>>> That in itself is worthy of Foucauldian analysis.
>> The gaze of the English,
>>> the governmentality (or lack of) of the region,
>> the eventualisation, the
>>> connaisance that was mistaken for savoir, the lack
>> of reparage, the
>>> remanances that sustain the tensions in the
>> region.
>>>
>>> Maybe we should present an analysis to the UN?
>>>
>>> Lionel
>>>
>>>
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send a newsletter, share photos & files, conduct polls, organize chat events.
> Visit http://in/ groups.yahoo.com