So, maybe we should send petition to the UN to stop
this lousy existence of this lousy Israel. Because
palestinians will accept only nonexistence or
"occupation". Or maybe we should open those good old
death camps...?
--- Yves Winter <winter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Nate,
>
> As you have probably gathered from my previous
> comments on the list, I
> firmly stand with you in the opposition to the
> occupation. However, I think
> we must be careful not to accept the argumentative
> structure of moral
> equivalence.
>
> The reason the occupation and the war against the
> Palestinian population is
> wrong is not because the Israeli army has killed
> MORE Palestinians than
> Palestinian suicide bombers have killed Israelis,
> but because of the
> material and structural domination Israel exerts on
> the Palestinians in the
> reproduction of an apartheid system in the name of
> "security".
>
> Call me an old-fashioned Augustinian, but I think it
> is important to
> distinguish between resistance against the
> domination (including violence
> directed towards combattants) and the targeting of
> the civilian population
> within the pre-1967 Israeli borders. In other words,
> the distinction between
> combatants and non-combatants is crucial. My point
> is that suicide attacks
> are wrong, both for ethical and political reasons.
> From an ethical
> perspective, they cannot be justified by a
> quantitative comparison of the
> number of Palestinian killed, nor by attempting to
> compare the historic
> injustices suffered both by the Jews and the
> Palestinians. I think Lyotard's
> Differend can teach us quite a bit about this. On a
> political level, you
> might want to ask why Sharon's offensive has not
> targeted the Hamas and the
> Islamic Jihad, but has almost exclusively focused on
> the Palestinian
> Authority and Arafat's Fatah movement. Don't the
> suicide bombers function as
> Sharon's allies in his strategy to build the Greater
> "Eretz Israel" from the
> Sea to the Jordan?
>
> In any case, it seems that the dead body has
> acquired a symbolic
> significance in this conflict that goes perhaps
> beyond what we know from
> previous wars. The heroization and fetishization of
> the dead as the martyr
> is perhaps a strategy of resistance to the Israeli
> politics of controlling
> bare life. Positing "bare death" as suicide against
> the biopolitical control
> may be an attempt to inverse the power relations at
> play through an inversal
> of the value parameters upon which the latters are
> based. However this
> inversion still is caught in a dialectical movement,
> since it rests on a
> dichotomy of value of life vs. value of death. The
> real question, it seems
> to me, is what kinds of resistance can base
> themselves not on a dialectical
> inversion, but on the power of life itself.
>
> Yves
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16/04/02 18:28, "Nathaniel Roberts" wrote:
>
> > Dear Jonas,
> >
> > Thank you for your concern.
> >
> > According to B'Tselem, 897 of the Palestinians
> killed from September 29,
> > 2000 though March 30, 2002 have been civilians,
> including 192 children.
> > There were over 108 assassinations (a war crime
> according to the Hague
> > Convention -1907) [source:
> http://www.jewsagainsttheoccupation.org,
> > factsheet]. This does not include most of those
> killed in the recent
> > assault, where the numbers have yet to be counted.
> I will forward two more
> > pieces about this most recent assault, which make
> a strong case that
> > massive war crimes have been committed by the
> Israelis.
> >
> > -Nate
> >
> >
> > At 03:31 PM 4/16/2002 +0200, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Nathaniel Roberts wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Jivko,
> >>>
> >>> Yes, Israelis have been killed by suicide
> bombers. But do you have any
> >>> idea of how many MORE Palestinian civilians have
> been killed by the
> >>> Israelis under the occupation?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Im very courious, is there any any exact numbers
> on how many "MORE" the
> >> Israelis have killed?
> >>
> >> Best Regards
> >>
> >> Jonas Vestlund
> >
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
this lousy existence of this lousy Israel. Because
palestinians will accept only nonexistence or
"occupation". Or maybe we should open those good old
death camps...?
--- Yves Winter <winter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Nate,
>
> As you have probably gathered from my previous
> comments on the list, I
> firmly stand with you in the opposition to the
> occupation. However, I think
> we must be careful not to accept the argumentative
> structure of moral
> equivalence.
>
> The reason the occupation and the war against the
> Palestinian population is
> wrong is not because the Israeli army has killed
> MORE Palestinians than
> Palestinian suicide bombers have killed Israelis,
> but because of the
> material and structural domination Israel exerts on
> the Palestinians in the
> reproduction of an apartheid system in the name of
> "security".
>
> Call me an old-fashioned Augustinian, but I think it
> is important to
> distinguish between resistance against the
> domination (including violence
> directed towards combattants) and the targeting of
> the civilian population
> within the pre-1967 Israeli borders. In other words,
> the distinction between
> combatants and non-combatants is crucial. My point
> is that suicide attacks
> are wrong, both for ethical and political reasons.
> From an ethical
> perspective, they cannot be justified by a
> quantitative comparison of the
> number of Palestinian killed, nor by attempting to
> compare the historic
> injustices suffered both by the Jews and the
> Palestinians. I think Lyotard's
> Differend can teach us quite a bit about this. On a
> political level, you
> might want to ask why Sharon's offensive has not
> targeted the Hamas and the
> Islamic Jihad, but has almost exclusively focused on
> the Palestinian
> Authority and Arafat's Fatah movement. Don't the
> suicide bombers function as
> Sharon's allies in his strategy to build the Greater
> "Eretz Israel" from the
> Sea to the Jordan?
>
> In any case, it seems that the dead body has
> acquired a symbolic
> significance in this conflict that goes perhaps
> beyond what we know from
> previous wars. The heroization and fetishization of
> the dead as the martyr
> is perhaps a strategy of resistance to the Israeli
> politics of controlling
> bare life. Positing "bare death" as suicide against
> the biopolitical control
> may be an attempt to inverse the power relations at
> play through an inversal
> of the value parameters upon which the latters are
> based. However this
> inversion still is caught in a dialectical movement,
> since it rests on a
> dichotomy of value of life vs. value of death. The
> real question, it seems
> to me, is what kinds of resistance can base
> themselves not on a dialectical
> inversion, but on the power of life itself.
>
> Yves
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16/04/02 18:28, "Nathaniel Roberts" wrote:
>
> > Dear Jonas,
> >
> > Thank you for your concern.
> >
> > According to B'Tselem, 897 of the Palestinians
> killed from September 29,
> > 2000 though March 30, 2002 have been civilians,
> including 192 children.
> > There were over 108 assassinations (a war crime
> according to the Hague
> > Convention -1907) [source:
> http://www.jewsagainsttheoccupation.org,
> > factsheet]. This does not include most of those
> killed in the recent
> > assault, where the numbers have yet to be counted.
> I will forward two more
> > pieces about this most recent assault, which make
> a strong case that
> > massive war crimes have been committed by the
> Israelis.
> >
> > -Nate
> >
> >
> > At 03:31 PM 4/16/2002 +0200, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Nathaniel Roberts wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Jivko,
> >>>
> >>> Yes, Israelis have been killed by suicide
> bombers. But do you have any
> >>> idea of how many MORE Palestinian civilians have
> been killed by the
> >>> Israelis under the occupation?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Im very courious, is there any any exact numbers
> on how many "MORE" the
> >> Israelis have killed?
> >>
> >> Best Regards
> >>
> >> Jonas Vestlund
> >
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/