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At 08:12 PM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
> In reviewing my research notes on the First Gulf War, I came across a
> news report of a rally of August 26, 1990 of men &women in Baghdad. The
> marchers shouted, "We will give our body and blood to our President."
>
> A news item of Thursday, August 8, 2002 reported that 15,000 persons
> marched through Baghdad in a 90-minute display of support of the Iraqi
> President. They carried photographs of Saddam Hussein and placards
> bearing slogans such as "long live Saddam." An Iraqi man on the streets
> of the capital, Hadi Abbass, told Reuters's news agency, "We are ready to
> sacrifice our blood, soul and children for the president."
>
> On August 27, 1990, UN Secretary General Javier Perez de Cuellar was
> bewildered that Saddam would not agree to leave Kuwait, knowing what the
> fate of the Iraqi people would be in the face of American might. He said,
> "I cannot imagine that someone wants war for the pleasure of killing his
> own people."
>
> Why is it so difficult to imagine that a leader provokes war in order
> to sacrifice his people?
>
> According to Carolyn Marvin, the "totem secret"--that which is
> required to remain secret--is knowledge that "society depends on the
> death of its own members at the hands of the group itself." She observes
> that the "Irrefutable sign of national faith is making one's body an
> offering, a sacrifice." Jean Elshtain notes that when a young man goes to
> war he does so, not so much to kill as "to die, to forfeit his particular
> body for that of the larger body, the body-politic." A willingness to die
> represents a demonstration of faith in the sacred ideal.
>
> In his Gulf War Anniversary address delivered to the Iraqi people on
> January 17, 2000, Hussein stated that the value attached to what a man
> loves "ranks on the same level of the sacrifice he renders" and is
> "commensurate with that sacrifice."
>
> The pleasure of "killing one's own people" thus is equivalent to a
> willingness to sacrifice one's people, to allow them to die in the name
> of the leader and the sacred ideals he presumably represents. As the war
> on the eastern front progressed in 1942, Goebbels was satisfied to note
> that "The German soldiers go into battle with devotion, like
> congregations going into service."
>
> Saddam Hussein said:
>
>We love God as much as we sacrifice for that love and endeavor to win His
>satisfaction with us. You have sacrificed, noble Iraqis, all that is dear
>and precious, and have shed your blood seeking the love of God and in hope
>to win His satisfaction.
>
> P. H. Pearse, founder of the Irish Revolutionary movement, was
> thrilled in 1916 to observe the carnage of the First World War:
>
>The last sixteen months have been the most glorious in the history of
>Europe. Heroism has come back to the earth. It is good for the world to be
>warmed with the red wine of the battlefield. Such august homage was never
>before offered to God as this, the homage of millions of lives given
>gladly for love of country.
>
> When the ideal for which persons are willing to die is very far from
> us--not our own--we see the willingness to allow young men (and others)
> to die as cold, ruthless brutality. When it is our ideal for which dying
> is proposed, we call it "beautiful sacrifice."
>
> The status of Gulf War (2?) revolves around the question of whether
> Saddam Hussein will succumb to his narcissistic dream, omnipotent fantasy
> of sacrificing the Iraqi people. Will he provoke the American people to
> act as sacrificers--with his own
>people as sacrificial victims?
>
> Of course, it takes two to tango. The other question is: Why is the
> President of the United States trying to provoke the President of Iraq to
> sacrifice his own people? Why is the United States willing to play the
> role as sacrificer with the Iraqi people as sacrificial victims?
>
>Richard Koenigsberg, Ph. D.
>Director, Library of Social Science
Hi Richard,
Thank you for your observations and how succinctly put.
We see this phenomenon throughout human history from Slobadan Milosevic, to
Hitler, to Goebbles to Saddam Hussein. These tyrants are great
psychologists of the human condition who know how to stimulate hero worship
and turn it to their own ends.Why else would Saddam have life-like statues
of himself erected in the centre of Baghdad just as huge portraits of Mao
Tse Tung draped the centre of Beijing? Not to mention farcical polls
manipulated to record 99.96% for the "great leader" when there is only one
candidate anyway. I guess it is just one small step to manipulate the mind
of young men, (and others), to make the ultimate sacrifice for the "great
leader".
Have a nice day.
Ross
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<html>
At 08:12 PM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=2> In
reviewing my research notes on the First Gulf War, I came across a news
report of a rally of August 26, 1990 of men &women in Baghdad. The
marchers shouted, "We will give our body and blood to our
President."<br><br>
A news item of Thursday, August 8, 2002 reported that
15,000 persons marched through Baghdad in a 90-minute display of support
of the Iraqi President. They carried photographs of Saddam Hussein and
placards bearing slogans such as "long live Saddam." An Iraqi
man on the streets of the capital, Hadi Abbass, told Reuters's news
agency, "We are ready to sacrifice our blood, soul and children for
the president."<br><br>
On August 27, 1990, UN Secretary General Javier Perez
de Cuellar was bewildered that Saddam would not agree to leave Kuwait,
knowing what the fate of the Iraqi people would be in the face of
American might. He said, "I cannot imagine that someone wants war
for the pleasure of killing his own people."<br><br>
Why is it so difficult to imagine that a leader
provokes war in order to sacrifice his people?<br><br>
According to Carolyn Marvin, the "totem
secret"--that which is required to remain secret--is knowledge that
"society depends on the death of its own members at the hands of the
group itself." She observes that the "Irrefutable sign of
national faith is making one's body an offering, a sacrifice." Jean
Elshtain notes that when a young man goes to war he does so, not so much
to kill as "to die, to forfeit his particular body for that of the
larger body, the body-politic." A willingness to die represents a
demonstration of faith in the sacred ideal.<br><br>
In his Gulf War Anniversary address delivered to the
Iraqi people on January 17, 2000, Hussein stated that the value attached
to what a man loves "ranks on the same level of the sacrifice he
renders" and is "commensurate with that
sacrifice."<br><br>
The pleasure of "killing one's own people"
thus is equivalent to a willingness to sacrifice one's people, to allow
them to die in the name of the leader and the sacred ideals he presumably
represents. As the war on the eastern front progressed in 1942, Goebbels
was satisfied to note that "The German soldiers go into battle with
devotion, like congregations going into service." <br><br>
Saddam Hussein said:<br><br>
We love God as much as we sacrifice for that love and endeavor to win His
satisfaction with us. You have sacrificed, noble Iraqis, all that is dear
and precious, and have shed your blood seeking the love of God and in
hope to win His satisfaction.<br><br>
P. H. Pearse, founder of the Irish Revolutionary movement,
was thrilled in 1916 to observe the carnage of the First World
War:<br><br>
The last sixteen months have been the most glorious in the history of
Europe. Heroism has come back to the earth. It is good for the world to
be warmed with the red wine of the battlefield. Such august homage was
never before offered to God as this, the homage of millions of lives
given gladly for love of country.<br><br>
When the ideal for which persons are willing to die is
very far from us--not our own--we see the willingness to allow young men
(and others) to die as cold, ruthless brutality. When it is our ideal for
which dying is proposed, we call it "beautiful
sacrifice."<br><br>
The status of Gulf War (2?) revolves around the
question of whether Saddam Hussein will succumb to his narcissistic
dream, omnipotent fantasy of sacrificing the Iraqi people. Will he
provoke the American people to act as sacrificers--with his own <br>
people as sacrificial victims?<br><br>
Of course, it takes two to tango. The other question
is: Why is the President of the United States trying to provoke the
President of Iraq to sacrifice his own people? Why is the United States
willing to play the role as sacrificer with the Iraqi people as
sacrificial victims? <br><br>
Richard Koenigsberg, Ph. D.<br>
Director, Library of Social Science</font><font face="arial">
</blockquote><br>
Hi Richard,<br><br>
Thank you for your observations and how succinctly put.<br><br>
We see this phenomenon throughout human history from Slobadan Milosevic,
to Hitler, to Goebbles to Saddam Hussein. These tyrants are great
psychologists of the human condition who know how to stimulate hero
worship and turn it to their own ends.Why else would Saddam have
life-like statues of himself erected in the centre of Baghdad just as
huge portraits of Mao Tse Tung draped the centre of Beijing? Not to
mention farcical polls manipulated to record 99.96% for the "great
leader" when there is only one candidate anyway. I guess it is
just one small step to manipulate the mind of young men, (and others), to
make the ultimate sacrifice for the "great leader".<br><br>
Have a nice day.<br><br>
Ross</font><br>
</html>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 08:12 PM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
> In reviewing my research notes on the First Gulf War, I came across a
> news report of a rally of August 26, 1990 of men &women in Baghdad. The
> marchers shouted, "We will give our body and blood to our President."
>
> A news item of Thursday, August 8, 2002 reported that 15,000 persons
> marched through Baghdad in a 90-minute display of support of the Iraqi
> President. They carried photographs of Saddam Hussein and placards
> bearing slogans such as "long live Saddam." An Iraqi man on the streets
> of the capital, Hadi Abbass, told Reuters's news agency, "We are ready to
> sacrifice our blood, soul and children for the president."
>
> On August 27, 1990, UN Secretary General Javier Perez de Cuellar was
> bewildered that Saddam would not agree to leave Kuwait, knowing what the
> fate of the Iraqi people would be in the face of American might. He said,
> "I cannot imagine that someone wants war for the pleasure of killing his
> own people."
>
> Why is it so difficult to imagine that a leader provokes war in order
> to sacrifice his people?
>
> According to Carolyn Marvin, the "totem secret"--that which is
> required to remain secret--is knowledge that "society depends on the
> death of its own members at the hands of the group itself." She observes
> that the "Irrefutable sign of national faith is making one's body an
> offering, a sacrifice." Jean Elshtain notes that when a young man goes to
> war he does so, not so much to kill as "to die, to forfeit his particular
> body for that of the larger body, the body-politic." A willingness to die
> represents a demonstration of faith in the sacred ideal.
>
> In his Gulf War Anniversary address delivered to the Iraqi people on
> January 17, 2000, Hussein stated that the value attached to what a man
> loves "ranks on the same level of the sacrifice he renders" and is
> "commensurate with that sacrifice."
>
> The pleasure of "killing one's own people" thus is equivalent to a
> willingness to sacrifice one's people, to allow them to die in the name
> of the leader and the sacred ideals he presumably represents. As the war
> on the eastern front progressed in 1942, Goebbels was satisfied to note
> that "The German soldiers go into battle with devotion, like
> congregations going into service."
>
> Saddam Hussein said:
>
>We love God as much as we sacrifice for that love and endeavor to win His
>satisfaction with us. You have sacrificed, noble Iraqis, all that is dear
>and precious, and have shed your blood seeking the love of God and in hope
>to win His satisfaction.
>
> P. H. Pearse, founder of the Irish Revolutionary movement, was
> thrilled in 1916 to observe the carnage of the First World War:
>
>The last sixteen months have been the most glorious in the history of
>Europe. Heroism has come back to the earth. It is good for the world to be
>warmed with the red wine of the battlefield. Such august homage was never
>before offered to God as this, the homage of millions of lives given
>gladly for love of country.
>
> When the ideal for which persons are willing to die is very far from
> us--not our own--we see the willingness to allow young men (and others)
> to die as cold, ruthless brutality. When it is our ideal for which dying
> is proposed, we call it "beautiful sacrifice."
>
> The status of Gulf War (2?) revolves around the question of whether
> Saddam Hussein will succumb to his narcissistic dream, omnipotent fantasy
> of sacrificing the Iraqi people. Will he provoke the American people to
> act as sacrificers--with his own
>people as sacrificial victims?
>
> Of course, it takes two to tango. The other question is: Why is the
> President of the United States trying to provoke the President of Iraq to
> sacrifice his own people? Why is the United States willing to play the
> role as sacrificer with the Iraqi people as sacrificial victims?
>
>Richard Koenigsberg, Ph. D.
>Director, Library of Social Science
Hi Richard,
Thank you for your observations and how succinctly put.
We see this phenomenon throughout human history from Slobadan Milosevic, to
Hitler, to Goebbles to Saddam Hussein. These tyrants are great
psychologists of the human condition who know how to stimulate hero worship
and turn it to their own ends.Why else would Saddam have life-like statues
of himself erected in the centre of Baghdad just as huge portraits of Mao
Tse Tung draped the centre of Beijing? Not to mention farcical polls
manipulated to record 99.96% for the "great leader" when there is only one
candidate anyway. I guess it is just one small step to manipulate the mind
of young men, (and others), to make the ultimate sacrifice for the "great
leader".
Have a nice day.
Ross
--=====================_2665918==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
At 08:12 PM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=2> In
reviewing my research notes on the First Gulf War, I came across a news
report of a rally of August 26, 1990 of men &women in Baghdad. The
marchers shouted, "We will give our body and blood to our
President."<br><br>
A news item of Thursday, August 8, 2002 reported that
15,000 persons marched through Baghdad in a 90-minute display of support
of the Iraqi President. They carried photographs of Saddam Hussein and
placards bearing slogans such as "long live Saddam." An Iraqi
man on the streets of the capital, Hadi Abbass, told Reuters's news
agency, "We are ready to sacrifice our blood, soul and children for
the president."<br><br>
On August 27, 1990, UN Secretary General Javier Perez
de Cuellar was bewildered that Saddam would not agree to leave Kuwait,
knowing what the fate of the Iraqi people would be in the face of
American might. He said, "I cannot imagine that someone wants war
for the pleasure of killing his own people."<br><br>
Why is it so difficult to imagine that a leader
provokes war in order to sacrifice his people?<br><br>
According to Carolyn Marvin, the "totem
secret"--that which is required to remain secret--is knowledge that
"society depends on the death of its own members at the hands of the
group itself." She observes that the "Irrefutable sign of
national faith is making one's body an offering, a sacrifice." Jean
Elshtain notes that when a young man goes to war he does so, not so much
to kill as "to die, to forfeit his particular body for that of the
larger body, the body-politic." A willingness to die represents a
demonstration of faith in the sacred ideal.<br><br>
In his Gulf War Anniversary address delivered to the
Iraqi people on January 17, 2000, Hussein stated that the value attached
to what a man loves "ranks on the same level of the sacrifice he
renders" and is "commensurate with that
sacrifice."<br><br>
The pleasure of "killing one's own people"
thus is equivalent to a willingness to sacrifice one's people, to allow
them to die in the name of the leader and the sacred ideals he presumably
represents. As the war on the eastern front progressed in 1942, Goebbels
was satisfied to note that "The German soldiers go into battle with
devotion, like congregations going into service." <br><br>
Saddam Hussein said:<br><br>
We love God as much as we sacrifice for that love and endeavor to win His
satisfaction with us. You have sacrificed, noble Iraqis, all that is dear
and precious, and have shed your blood seeking the love of God and in
hope to win His satisfaction.<br><br>
P. H. Pearse, founder of the Irish Revolutionary movement,
was thrilled in 1916 to observe the carnage of the First World
War:<br><br>
The last sixteen months have been the most glorious in the history of
Europe. Heroism has come back to the earth. It is good for the world to
be warmed with the red wine of the battlefield. Such august homage was
never before offered to God as this, the homage of millions of lives
given gladly for love of country.<br><br>
When the ideal for which persons are willing to die is
very far from us--not our own--we see the willingness to allow young men
(and others) to die as cold, ruthless brutality. When it is our ideal for
which dying is proposed, we call it "beautiful
sacrifice."<br><br>
The status of Gulf War (2?) revolves around the
question of whether Saddam Hussein will succumb to his narcissistic
dream, omnipotent fantasy of sacrificing the Iraqi people. Will he
provoke the American people to act as sacrificers--with his own <br>
people as sacrificial victims?<br><br>
Of course, it takes two to tango. The other question
is: Why is the President of the United States trying to provoke the
President of Iraq to sacrifice his own people? Why is the United States
willing to play the role as sacrificer with the Iraqi people as
sacrificial victims? <br><br>
Richard Koenigsberg, Ph. D.<br>
Director, Library of Social Science</font><font face="arial">
</blockquote><br>
Hi Richard,<br><br>
Thank you for your observations and how succinctly put.<br><br>
We see this phenomenon throughout human history from Slobadan Milosevic,
to Hitler, to Goebbles to Saddam Hussein. These tyrants are great
psychologists of the human condition who know how to stimulate hero
worship and turn it to their own ends.Why else would Saddam have
life-like statues of himself erected in the centre of Baghdad just as
huge portraits of Mao Tse Tung draped the centre of Beijing? Not to
mention farcical polls manipulated to record 99.96% for the "great
leader" when there is only one candidate anyway. I guess it is
just one small step to manipulate the mind of young men, (and others), to
make the ultimate sacrifice for the "great leader".<br><br>
Have a nice day.<br><br>
Ross</font><br>
</html>
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