i like the idea of displacing idealist conceptions of 'ideas.'
i think this is also a central trope of f's work: i.e. the inseparability of
thinking and doing, the interrelation between thought and action.
moreover, i think f formulated this interrelationality in at least three
different ways: first as discourse-practice, second as power-knowledge, and
lastly as govern-mentality.
- k
> -----Original Message-----
> From: borderlands@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:34:06 +0930
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] practice
>
> One function of the word 'practice' in Althusser, as Jason Read (in an
> as yet unpublished conference paper) has raised, is to displace
> idealist conceptions of 'ideas' and so on, for example in the concept
> of 'theoretical practice', which Read argues derives from Spinoza.
> Given what Macherey says regarding the Spinozist aspect of Foucault -
> in his paper in the collection _Michel Foucault: Philosopher_ - maybe
> the word 'practice' in Foucault had a similar function, namely as a
> means of displacing existing notions as much as entailing a positive,
> elaborated concept? What you say about the doer and the doing also
> rings bells regarding Spinozism as much as Nietzsche & Heidegger. I've
> actually just started reading Stuart Elden's book _Mapping History_ at
> the moment (or at least reading chapters from it, I *hope* to read the
> whole thing before other things take over as they do), that makes the
> case for the influence of Heidegger on Foucault (and especially on
> Foucault's reading of Nietzsche) - if you haven't looked at that book
> yet it might be a good place to start.
>
> Sorry my reading of Foucault although relatively extensive has never
> been as systematic as my reading of Althusser and I can't remember
> exactly any passages where Foucault actually specifies how he
> conceptualises 'practice' in general, how it might be distinguished as
> different forms of practice, or what the relations might be in his work
> between general notions of practice and specific, concrete practices.
>
> David
>
>
> On 28/06/2005, at 5:20 PM, Kevin Turner wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering also, if there isn't a relation to Nietzsche here ("there
> > is no 'being'behind doing, acting, becoming; 'the doer' is merely a
> > fiction imposed on the doing - the doing itself is everything" (GM, 1
> > §13)), and thus also to Heidegger. Thus I am tempted to take the term
> > practice in Foucault
> > to simply refer to a doing or ways of doing - albeit historically
> > specific and limited forms of doing - which are constitutive of being.
> > What I am interested in, or rather the question I am asking, is does F
> > mean shared social practice (which on the one hand raises the question
> > of transmission - an inherited background to use Wittgenstein's phrase
> > - and
> > on the other hand raises the question of identity/sameness) or is he
> > referring to historically specific and delimited ways of doing that are
> > loosely shared by a specific collective (i.e. disciplines such as
> > medicine,
> > psychiatry, the penal system, etc).
> >
> > In addition to the above, I'm also interested in whether F makes any
> > sort of
> > distinction between practice and practices (vis., Kant).
> >
> > Since
> > I have been unable to come to any firm conclusion in my own reading, I
> > am interested in what others have had to say on the subject.
> >
> > Regards - Kevin.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: borderlands@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:40:27 +0930
> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] practice
> >>
> >> Hi Kevin
> >>
> >> This is an interesting question - I'm not sure where Foucault
> >> theorised
> >> 'practice' in general. It might be useful to start from Althusser's
> >> concept of practice as elaborated in _For Marx_ (and on which there
> >> are, from memory, several commentaries by others published or
> >> unpublished) and look at how Foucault might have responded to, or
> >> perhaps incorporated, Althusser's concept of practice. As Warren
> >> Montag and others have said, often there seems to have been a
> >> theoretical dialogue - explicit or implicit - between Althusser and
> >> Foucault.
> >>
> >> I'm interested to read what others better read in Foucault - or
> >> perhaps
> >> just with better memories - than I have to say on this question of a
> >> general concept of practice in Foucault. Perhaps it exists only in
> >> what Althusser termed 'the practical state' within Foucault's writings
> >> on various practices?
> >>
> >> DM
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28/06/2005, at 2:51 AM, François Gagnon wrote:
> >>
> >>> Take a look at the index of Dits et Écrits... there's an impressive
> >>> list!
> >>> François
> >>>
> >>> Kevin Turner a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>> can anybody point me in the direction of some texts that discuss f's
> >>>> usage
> >>>> of the term practice: i.e. as in discourse-practice; but also in
> >>>> terms of
> >>>> medical practice, disciplinary practices, governmental practice.
> >>>>
> >>>> regards - k
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
i think this is also a central trope of f's work: i.e. the inseparability of
thinking and doing, the interrelation between thought and action.
moreover, i think f formulated this interrelationality in at least three
different ways: first as discourse-practice, second as power-knowledge, and
lastly as govern-mentality.
- k
> -----Original Message-----
> From: borderlands@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:34:06 +0930
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] practice
>
> One function of the word 'practice' in Althusser, as Jason Read (in an
> as yet unpublished conference paper) has raised, is to displace
> idealist conceptions of 'ideas' and so on, for example in the concept
> of 'theoretical practice', which Read argues derives from Spinoza.
> Given what Macherey says regarding the Spinozist aspect of Foucault -
> in his paper in the collection _Michel Foucault: Philosopher_ - maybe
> the word 'practice' in Foucault had a similar function, namely as a
> means of displacing existing notions as much as entailing a positive,
> elaborated concept? What you say about the doer and the doing also
> rings bells regarding Spinozism as much as Nietzsche & Heidegger. I've
> actually just started reading Stuart Elden's book _Mapping History_ at
> the moment (or at least reading chapters from it, I *hope* to read the
> whole thing before other things take over as they do), that makes the
> case for the influence of Heidegger on Foucault (and especially on
> Foucault's reading of Nietzsche) - if you haven't looked at that book
> yet it might be a good place to start.
>
> Sorry my reading of Foucault although relatively extensive has never
> been as systematic as my reading of Althusser and I can't remember
> exactly any passages where Foucault actually specifies how he
> conceptualises 'practice' in general, how it might be distinguished as
> different forms of practice, or what the relations might be in his work
> between general notions of practice and specific, concrete practices.
>
> David
>
>
> On 28/06/2005, at 5:20 PM, Kevin Turner wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering also, if there isn't a relation to Nietzsche here ("there
> > is no 'being'behind doing, acting, becoming; 'the doer' is merely a
> > fiction imposed on the doing - the doing itself is everything" (GM, 1
> > §13)), and thus also to Heidegger. Thus I am tempted to take the term
> > practice in Foucault
> > to simply refer to a doing or ways of doing - albeit historically
> > specific and limited forms of doing - which are constitutive of being.
> > What I am interested in, or rather the question I am asking, is does F
> > mean shared social practice (which on the one hand raises the question
> > of transmission - an inherited background to use Wittgenstein's phrase
> > - and
> > on the other hand raises the question of identity/sameness) or is he
> > referring to historically specific and delimited ways of doing that are
> > loosely shared by a specific collective (i.e. disciplines such as
> > medicine,
> > psychiatry, the penal system, etc).
> >
> > In addition to the above, I'm also interested in whether F makes any
> > sort of
> > distinction between practice and practices (vis., Kant).
> >
> > Since
> > I have been unable to come to any firm conclusion in my own reading, I
> > am interested in what others have had to say on the subject.
> >
> > Regards - Kevin.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: borderlands@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:40:27 +0930
> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] practice
> >>
> >> Hi Kevin
> >>
> >> This is an interesting question - I'm not sure where Foucault
> >> theorised
> >> 'practice' in general. It might be useful to start from Althusser's
> >> concept of practice as elaborated in _For Marx_ (and on which there
> >> are, from memory, several commentaries by others published or
> >> unpublished) and look at how Foucault might have responded to, or
> >> perhaps incorporated, Althusser's concept of practice. As Warren
> >> Montag and others have said, often there seems to have been a
> >> theoretical dialogue - explicit or implicit - between Althusser and
> >> Foucault.
> >>
> >> I'm interested to read what others better read in Foucault - or
> >> perhaps
> >> just with better memories - than I have to say on this question of a
> >> general concept of practice in Foucault. Perhaps it exists only in
> >> what Althusser termed 'the practical state' within Foucault's writings
> >> on various practices?
> >>
> >> DM
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28/06/2005, at 2:51 AM, François Gagnon wrote:
> >>
> >>> Take a look at the index of Dits et Écrits... there's an impressive
> >>> list!
> >>> François
> >>>
> >>> Kevin Turner a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>> can anybody point me in the direction of some texts that discuss f's
> >>>> usage
> >>>> of the term practice: i.e. as in discourse-practice; but also in
> >>>> terms of
> >>>> medical practice, disciplinary practices, governmental practice.
> >>>>
> >>>> regards - k
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list