the last reference should have read:
Beatrice Han, Foucault's Critical Project: Between the Transcendental and the Historical, Stanford, 2002 - CH 5: pp. 152-173.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:56:43 -0500
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] RE : experience-experiment.
>
> You can't be serious!
>
> On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 02:12:49PM -0800, Kevin Turner wrote:
>> that all depends on how you understand foucault's use of the term
>> experience...
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:55:46 -0500
>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] RE : experience-experiment.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 11:22:53AM -0800, Kevin Turner wrote:
>>>> Hi Fran??ois
>>>>
>>>> Having re-read all the paragraphs in which the word
>>>> ???experiment??? appears, I have selected the following sentences
>>>> in which the term ???experiment??? should possibly have been
>>>> translated as ???experience.???
>>>>
>>>> From the ???Preface:???
>>>>
>>>> ???The breadth of the experiment [experience] seems to be
>>>> identified with the domain of the careful gaze?????? (BC: xiii).
>>>
>>> This one--unlike the others, in my eyes--can be read either way.
>>>
>>>> From ???The Lessons of the Hospital:???
>>>>
>>>> ???Once one defined a practical experiment [experience] carried
>>>> out on the patient himself, one insisted on the need to relate
>>>> particular knowledge to an encyclopaedic whole??? (BC: 71).
>>>
>>> How does one carry out an experience on someone else? What is a
>>> "practical" experience, and how can defining one create a need to
>>> relate particulars to general medical knowledge?
>>>
>>>> ???The doctrine of the hospital was an ambiguous one: theoretically
>>>> free, and, because of the non-contractual character of the relation
>>>> between doctor and patient, open to the indifference of experiment
>>>> [experience]???(BC: 83-4).
>>>
>>> How can experience be called indifferent? Does this sentence not
>>> say the following?
>>>
>>> "Because the doctor did not need the patient's agreement, he could
>>> experiment on the patient (with indifference to his experience!)
>>> rather than constrain himself to treatment. This fell within the
>>> mission of the hospital because it advanced medical knowledge."
>>>
>>>> From ???Seeing and Knowing:???
>>>>
>>>> ???The opposition between clinic and experiment [experience]
>>>> overlays exactly the difference between the language we hear, and
>>>> consequently recognise, and the question we pose, or, rather,
>>>> impose: ???The observer???reads nature, he who experiments
>>>> [experiences] questions?????? (BC: 108).
>>>
>>> Experimenting is questioning, for sure. But experiencing?
>>>
>>> Can we say this?
>>>
>>> "The difference between experiment and observation is that in the
>>> former, one controls conditions, one attempts to isolate phenomena
>>> by interfering, one acts in specific ways on one's object and
>>> observes the consequences of action; in the latter one is passive.
>>> To ask a question is to affect what is said; merely to listen
>>> is not. It is observation which is experience, and experiment
>>> which is action; observation/experience listens/knows(connaitre);
>>> experiment/action questions/knows(savoir)."
>>>
>>> (Often the notion of experiment affecting its object is expressed
>>> with a not-quite-accurate reference to Heisenberg.)
>>>
>>> The strange word in that sentence seems to me not 'experiment' but
>>> 'clinic.' Looking it up:
>>>
>>> 3. (Med.) a medical facility, often connected with a school or
>>> hospital, which treats primarily outpatients.
>>>
>>> 4. (Med.) A school, or a session of a school or class, in which
>>> medicine or surgery is taught by the examination and treatment of
>>> patients in the presence of the pupils.
>>>
>>> Oh... Within the clinic(4), the medical students just watch
>>> passively.
>>>
>>>> And from ???Open Up a Few Corpses:???
>>>>
>>>> ??????progress in observation, a wish to develop and extend
>>>> experiment [experience]?????? (BC: 136).
>>>
>>> Novel experiments (and the publication of their results) are the
>>> means by which scientific observation progresses. But experience?
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Beatrice Han, Foucault's Critical Project: Between the Transcendental and the Historical, Stanford, 2002 - CH 5: pp. 152-173.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:56:43 -0500
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] RE : experience-experiment.
>
> You can't be serious!
>
> On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 02:12:49PM -0800, Kevin Turner wrote:
>> that all depends on how you understand foucault's use of the term
>> experience...
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:55:46 -0500
>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] RE : experience-experiment.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 11:22:53AM -0800, Kevin Turner wrote:
>>>> Hi Fran??ois
>>>>
>>>> Having re-read all the paragraphs in which the word
>>>> ???experiment??? appears, I have selected the following sentences
>>>> in which the term ???experiment??? should possibly have been
>>>> translated as ???experience.???
>>>>
>>>> From the ???Preface:???
>>>>
>>>> ???The breadth of the experiment [experience] seems to be
>>>> identified with the domain of the careful gaze?????? (BC: xiii).
>>>
>>> This one--unlike the others, in my eyes--can be read either way.
>>>
>>>> From ???The Lessons of the Hospital:???
>>>>
>>>> ???Once one defined a practical experiment [experience] carried
>>>> out on the patient himself, one insisted on the need to relate
>>>> particular knowledge to an encyclopaedic whole??? (BC: 71).
>>>
>>> How does one carry out an experience on someone else? What is a
>>> "practical" experience, and how can defining one create a need to
>>> relate particulars to general medical knowledge?
>>>
>>>> ???The doctrine of the hospital was an ambiguous one: theoretically
>>>> free, and, because of the non-contractual character of the relation
>>>> between doctor and patient, open to the indifference of experiment
>>>> [experience]???(BC: 83-4).
>>>
>>> How can experience be called indifferent? Does this sentence not
>>> say the following?
>>>
>>> "Because the doctor did not need the patient's agreement, he could
>>> experiment on the patient (with indifference to his experience!)
>>> rather than constrain himself to treatment. This fell within the
>>> mission of the hospital because it advanced medical knowledge."
>>>
>>>> From ???Seeing and Knowing:???
>>>>
>>>> ???The opposition between clinic and experiment [experience]
>>>> overlays exactly the difference between the language we hear, and
>>>> consequently recognise, and the question we pose, or, rather,
>>>> impose: ???The observer???reads nature, he who experiments
>>>> [experiences] questions?????? (BC: 108).
>>>
>>> Experimenting is questioning, for sure. But experiencing?
>>>
>>> Can we say this?
>>>
>>> "The difference between experiment and observation is that in the
>>> former, one controls conditions, one attempts to isolate phenomena
>>> by interfering, one acts in specific ways on one's object and
>>> observes the consequences of action; in the latter one is passive.
>>> To ask a question is to affect what is said; merely to listen
>>> is not. It is observation which is experience, and experiment
>>> which is action; observation/experience listens/knows(connaitre);
>>> experiment/action questions/knows(savoir)."
>>>
>>> (Often the notion of experiment affecting its object is expressed
>>> with a not-quite-accurate reference to Heisenberg.)
>>>
>>> The strange word in that sentence seems to me not 'experiment' but
>>> 'clinic.' Looking it up:
>>>
>>> 3. (Med.) a medical facility, often connected with a school or
>>> hospital, which treats primarily outpatients.
>>>
>>> 4. (Med.) A school, or a session of a school or class, in which
>>> medicine or surgery is taught by the examination and treatment of
>>> patients in the presence of the pupils.
>>>
>>> Oh... Within the clinic(4), the medical students just watch
>>> passively.
>>>
>>>> And from ???Open Up a Few Corpses:???
>>>>
>>>> ??????progress in observation, a wish to develop and extend
>>>> experiment [experience]?????? (BC: 136).
>>>
>>> Novel experiments (and the publication of their results) are the
>>> means by which scientific observation progresses. But experience?
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