sorry, I've deleted the original message so I will have to type again the
bits I quote.
on 10 Jan.1997, Flora Tristan <tristan@xxxxxxx> wrote:
"Workers are kept from the knowledge, which the iww teaches, that they are
the creators of all the wealth in society----"
There is only partial truth in this. True - workers are kept from
knowledge since knowledge is power and power is knowledge. The more
knowledge they are kept from the less power they will have and vice versa.
"Workers are the creators of all the wealth in society----capitalists are
superfluous".
False - workers can only create wealth in collaboration and cooperation
with capitalists - not in isolation from them.
Since capitalists - such as entrepreneurs and enterprising business
people are essential and an integral part of any healthy and thriving
economy, to suggest that capitalists are superfluous (they are not!), and
that workers are the creators of all wealth in society is plainly false.
Honest competition creates enterprise and creativity so to remove
competition (which is what capitalism is all about) is undesirable.
"a clear class conscious understanding is what we need"
No we don't, because we must move away from the idea that 'class' is the
problem when 'power' is the problem. Power does not operate in society
just from the top down (from a capitalist class to a working class),but in
finely tuned channels among workers and bosses alike. Therefore you will not
solve the problems of humanity by doing away with capitalism. All you will
achieve is replacing one tyranny with another.
"the working class and the employing class have nothing in common".
Rubbish! - the working class and the employing class have many things in
common because both can (and indeed have been), seduced and undermined by
the tentacles of power. Human nature being what it is, workers interests
are more likely to be advanced by raising awareness as to how power operates
and devising strategies to counter that, and how those who have power will
do anything to hang on to it, whether they are capitalists or unionists.
I am not convinced that workers interests will be advanced by claiming that
there is some unbridgeable gulf between workers and bosses - I do not
believe that.
"Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the
world organise as a class".
This idea is unrealistic and undesirable because as I have already said,
it fails to touch the heart of the problem and why workers are exploited,
suffering deplorable wages and conditions worldwide, or why such problems as
child labour are rife in some parts of the world.
"The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers
to be pitted against another set of workers---".
This is only partially true. It is true that workers are pitted against
other workers, thus fragmenting and undermining the union movement.
However, this comes about because of deliberate tactics and ploys of
capitalists who hold most of the power, not because of anything unions do.
It is best overcome by designing tactics and counter-strategies which
understand the processes whereby this comes about.
"Abolition of the wage system".
If you abolish the wage system, what are you going to replace it with? Some
sort of utopia where workers are part of a communal system, happy to work
for nothing since everybody toils for the betterment of everybody else?
Totally unrealistic, since people must be rewarded for effort to encourage
efficiency, enterprise and creativity. In other words, the wage system must
be retained. Reform is what we need, not abolition.
The basic idea has already been tried in the old Soviet Union and China
and been shown that it does not work, is grossly inefficient and wasteful
and will only replace one form of tyranny with another. Furthermore, there
is nothing wrong with the wage system in itself. What is wrong is the abuse
of power in the pursuit of profit.
Therefore abolition of the wage system has to be rejected.
Have a nice day.
Ross
Do not ask me who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: leave it to our
bureaucrats and our police to see that our papers are in order.
Breezey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
bits I quote.
on 10 Jan.1997, Flora Tristan <tristan@xxxxxxx> wrote:
"Workers are kept from the knowledge, which the iww teaches, that they are
the creators of all the wealth in society----"
There is only partial truth in this. True - workers are kept from
knowledge since knowledge is power and power is knowledge. The more
knowledge they are kept from the less power they will have and vice versa.
"Workers are the creators of all the wealth in society----capitalists are
superfluous".
False - workers can only create wealth in collaboration and cooperation
with capitalists - not in isolation from them.
Since capitalists - such as entrepreneurs and enterprising business
people are essential and an integral part of any healthy and thriving
economy, to suggest that capitalists are superfluous (they are not!), and
that workers are the creators of all wealth in society is plainly false.
Honest competition creates enterprise and creativity so to remove
competition (which is what capitalism is all about) is undesirable.
"a clear class conscious understanding is what we need"
No we don't, because we must move away from the idea that 'class' is the
problem when 'power' is the problem. Power does not operate in society
just from the top down (from a capitalist class to a working class),but in
finely tuned channels among workers and bosses alike. Therefore you will not
solve the problems of humanity by doing away with capitalism. All you will
achieve is replacing one tyranny with another.
"the working class and the employing class have nothing in common".
Rubbish! - the working class and the employing class have many things in
common because both can (and indeed have been), seduced and undermined by
the tentacles of power. Human nature being what it is, workers interests
are more likely to be advanced by raising awareness as to how power operates
and devising strategies to counter that, and how those who have power will
do anything to hang on to it, whether they are capitalists or unionists.
I am not convinced that workers interests will be advanced by claiming that
there is some unbridgeable gulf between workers and bosses - I do not
believe that.
"Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the
world organise as a class".
This idea is unrealistic and undesirable because as I have already said,
it fails to touch the heart of the problem and why workers are exploited,
suffering deplorable wages and conditions worldwide, or why such problems as
child labour are rife in some parts of the world.
"The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers
to be pitted against another set of workers---".
This is only partially true. It is true that workers are pitted against
other workers, thus fragmenting and undermining the union movement.
However, this comes about because of deliberate tactics and ploys of
capitalists who hold most of the power, not because of anything unions do.
It is best overcome by designing tactics and counter-strategies which
understand the processes whereby this comes about.
"Abolition of the wage system".
If you abolish the wage system, what are you going to replace it with? Some
sort of utopia where workers are part of a communal system, happy to work
for nothing since everybody toils for the betterment of everybody else?
Totally unrealistic, since people must be rewarded for effort to encourage
efficiency, enterprise and creativity. In other words, the wage system must
be retained. Reform is what we need, not abolition.
The basic idea has already been tried in the old Soviet Union and China
and been shown that it does not work, is grossly inefficient and wasteful
and will only replace one form of tyranny with another. Furthermore, there
is nothing wrong with the wage system in itself. What is wrong is the abuse
of power in the pursuit of profit.
Therefore abolition of the wage system has to be rejected.
Have a nice day.
Ross
Do not ask me who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: leave it to our
bureaucrats and our police to see that our papers are in order.
Breezey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.