Op 17-apr-97 schreef malgosia askanas:
>Well, my proposal is that trangression (in the sense of _Preface_ and of
>your rock-orgy example) does not have much to do with personal growth.
>> - what is the relation between transgression and religion and/or drugs?
>I think there is an umbilical cord linking it to religion; it requires
>some kind of sacred space to play itself out.
>-m
thanks for your comments,
let me dwell on these last issues for a moment. being rather familiar with
hinduism and buddhism, the concept of transgression reminds me of many indian
religious practices and rituals. i think the kind of transgression
foucault and bataille were thinking of is very common there. the transgression
is always seen as a step on the path to personal development. let me give two
examples.
1) some years ago somebody succeeded in making a tv-documentairy about a
shaiva-yogi of the 'agori' (scary) type. this man lived on a cremationplace,
covered his naked body with the ashes of the cremationfires and had a skull
for a
begging bowl. from time to time he would snatch a roasted piece of human meat
>from the cremation fire (the next of kin often leave the body while it's still
burning) and eat it. he said it made him identify with shiva and it excited
his body everytime again. (you have to know that a regular hindu avoids any
contact with death, even a barber is considered ritually very unclean and
therefore lowcast and intouchable, because he has contact with dead hairs) his
life of transgression is supposed to lead him to moksha, deliverance from
subjective and socially induced pain and frustration (my definition). his
guru, who once lived the same kind of life, is now a well respected citizen
and owner of a building-company.
2) i onced learned a buddhist tantric ritual that is called the 'choed'
(pronounce the german way). in this ritual you've to imagine as lively as
you can that you go out of your body, become a fierce goddes, cut your body in
pieces and feed it to all your own fears and desires which appear in the form
of all kinds of ghosts. i found it quite effective when not practiced to
often. the effect i felt is a slight basic tranquillity.
my own conclusion from these examples (and others) is that this kind of
transgression is changing the meaning of things or our awareness. the
transgression is an important event in the transgressors own biography, after
which s/he is
not the one s/he used to be. transgression is not a means towards a predefined
goal, neither is it a form of communication, the transgressor doesn't tell
him/herself anything. like in any
ritual the agent doesn't think about it, s/he just does it. it's semoitic
manupilation.
so the transgression doesn't have to be real, the meaning of it has to be real
to the transgressor. of course a limit is just a sign, maybe transgression is
an attempt to change the meaning of the limit, reaffirming it in a new way and
thereby changing the meaning of that what's enclosed by the limit. in both
examples there is not lust at play, but a kind of kierkegordian fear. this is
also very seductive, like lust and power. therefore it enhances the ritual,
which is in itself a seductive game. i personally think this is a much more
interesting kind of transgression then just letting off steam and then going
on as usual, which i think is the bahktinean kind of carnival. i find the
choed-ritual an intriging example because it shows the mutual dependency of
transgression and limit. anybody who wants to perfrom the ritual has to be a
real and coherent person and stay that way throughout the ritual. if the agent
freeks out, the ritual looses it's coherence and it's effect. because the
agent is him/herself and coincides with his/her body s/he can give it away.
so that's why i was thinking about a possible connection with personal
change.
still, afterall, somebody might say that it's just an internal drama which
temporarily takes away existing feelings of guilt.
any suggestions?
erikh
>Well, my proposal is that trangression (in the sense of _Preface_ and of
>your rock-orgy example) does not have much to do with personal growth.
>> - what is the relation between transgression and religion and/or drugs?
>I think there is an umbilical cord linking it to religion; it requires
>some kind of sacred space to play itself out.
>-m
thanks for your comments,
let me dwell on these last issues for a moment. being rather familiar with
hinduism and buddhism, the concept of transgression reminds me of many indian
religious practices and rituals. i think the kind of transgression
foucault and bataille were thinking of is very common there. the transgression
is always seen as a step on the path to personal development. let me give two
examples.
1) some years ago somebody succeeded in making a tv-documentairy about a
shaiva-yogi of the 'agori' (scary) type. this man lived on a cremationplace,
covered his naked body with the ashes of the cremationfires and had a skull
for a
begging bowl. from time to time he would snatch a roasted piece of human meat
>from the cremation fire (the next of kin often leave the body while it's still
burning) and eat it. he said it made him identify with shiva and it excited
his body everytime again. (you have to know that a regular hindu avoids any
contact with death, even a barber is considered ritually very unclean and
therefore lowcast and intouchable, because he has contact with dead hairs) his
life of transgression is supposed to lead him to moksha, deliverance from
subjective and socially induced pain and frustration (my definition). his
guru, who once lived the same kind of life, is now a well respected citizen
and owner of a building-company.
2) i onced learned a buddhist tantric ritual that is called the 'choed'
(pronounce the german way). in this ritual you've to imagine as lively as
you can that you go out of your body, become a fierce goddes, cut your body in
pieces and feed it to all your own fears and desires which appear in the form
of all kinds of ghosts. i found it quite effective when not practiced to
often. the effect i felt is a slight basic tranquillity.
my own conclusion from these examples (and others) is that this kind of
transgression is changing the meaning of things or our awareness. the
transgression is an important event in the transgressors own biography, after
which s/he is
not the one s/he used to be. transgression is not a means towards a predefined
goal, neither is it a form of communication, the transgressor doesn't tell
him/herself anything. like in any
ritual the agent doesn't think about it, s/he just does it. it's semoitic
manupilation.
so the transgression doesn't have to be real, the meaning of it has to be real
to the transgressor. of course a limit is just a sign, maybe transgression is
an attempt to change the meaning of the limit, reaffirming it in a new way and
thereby changing the meaning of that what's enclosed by the limit. in both
examples there is not lust at play, but a kind of kierkegordian fear. this is
also very seductive, like lust and power. therefore it enhances the ritual,
which is in itself a seductive game. i personally think this is a much more
interesting kind of transgression then just letting off steam and then going
on as usual, which i think is the bahktinean kind of carnival. i find the
choed-ritual an intriging example because it shows the mutual dependency of
transgression and limit. anybody who wants to perfrom the ritual has to be a
real and coherent person and stay that way throughout the ritual. if the agent
freeks out, the ritual looses it's coherence and it's effect. because the
agent is him/herself and coincides with his/her body s/he can give it away.
so that's why i was thinking about a possible connection with personal
change.
still, afterall, somebody might say that it's just an internal drama which
temporarily takes away existing feelings of guilt.
any suggestions?
erikh