Nor does every dictionary of Foucault terms hold an advanced knowledge or
a "good" of Foucault, (as if one could know) , in spite of self made
claims that it does.
Erik Hoogcarspel wrote:
> Let me tell you a little secret, Jivko: not everything which is in the
> newspaper is true and not every book that's written is trustworthy.
>
> Jivko Georgiev wrote:
>
> > There is a recent article i found today in a western
> > newspaper. The artical is a rewiew of a recent book on
> > the balkans. The author explains shortly the content
> > of the book. Here is the qoutation from the rewiew.
> > Please, read it:
> > " Mazower does not accept the idea that Balkans
> > violence is result of ancient ethnic hatred. The
> > source of the conflict often lay outside the region.
> > VIOLENT NATIONALISM, he stresses, has been IMPORTED IN
> > THE BALKANS FROM WESTERN EUROPE. It was Western Europe
> > that gave the peoples of Soutrhern Europe the
> > ideological weapons with which they could destroy each
> > other - and themselves."
> > Joeri Buhrer Tavanier (author of the rewiew)
> >
> > I havent wrote it. I jsut found it. If You dont trust
> > me , I will send you scanned copy of the article. The
> > newspapper is a newspapper about Bulgaria for
> > foreigners, called "Sofia Echo" - its chief is Brendan
> > Howe. and here is the book:
> >
> > The Balkans: Short History
> > Mark Mazower
> > The Modern Library, New York 2000,
> > $19.95
> >
> >
> > --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Jivko:
> >>
> >> You seem to have committed an odd variation of the
> >> genetic fallacy --
> >> because something originates in X ("the west") it
> >> belongs essentially to
> >> that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be
> >> essentially Arabic. Since you
> >> admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how
> >> does it remain an
> >> exclusively "western" property?
> >>
> >> I do not understand your question about what
> >> Foucault "had in common with
> >> nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a
> >> nationalist, and one can
> >> recognize the importance of nationalism (among other
> >> power formations)
> >> without either affirming its value, its universality
> >> or its supreme
> >> importance.
> >>
> >> Larry
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
> >> Subject: nationalism and the human being
> >>
> >>
> >>> China addopted a western invention - the
> >>
> >> communsim-
> >>
> >>> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> >>> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> >>> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about
> >>
> >> it
> >>
> >>> in a collection called "The postmodern explained
> >>
> >> for
> >>
> >>> children". The communism is cultivating
> >>
> >> nationalism
> >>
> >>> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia).
> >>
> >> I
> >>
> >>> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> >>> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> >>> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody
> >>
> >> else.
> >>
> >>> The west sais, that the opposite of the
> >>
> >> nationalism is
> >>
> >>> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> >>> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we
> >>
> >> know
> >>
> >>> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> >>> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the
> >>
> >> man
> >>
> >>> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me
> >>
> >> again
> >>
> >>> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> >>> nationalism?
> >>>
> >>> Jivko
> >>> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Jivko:
> >>>>
> >>>> You are seriously claiming that there is no
> >>>
> >> Japanese
> >>
> >>>> or Chinese nationalism?
> >>>> Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
> >>>> combination of both? Whether
> >>>> nationalism is a useful concept requires close
> >>>> attention to particular
> >>>> settings. I do not see how anyone could use
> >>>
> >> these
> >>
> >>>> global generalizations
> >>>> about "the west" to understand anything.
> >>>>
> >>>> Larry
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Jivko Georgiev"
> >>>
> >> <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
> >>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I repeat: the nationalism concern only the
> >>>>
> >> western
> >>
> >>>>> world. To the rest of the world it is
> >>>>
> >> irrelevant.
> >>
> >>>>> Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant
> >>>>
> >> issue,
> >>
> >>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>> he avoided it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Zhivko
> >>>>> --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached
> >>>>>
> >> this
> >>
> >>>>>> question. I wonder if a way
> >>>>>> to connect Foucault's work in this
> >>>>>
> >> discussion
> >>
> >>>> about
> >>>>
> >>>>>> nationalism is to
> >>>>>> identify some of the discourses that have
> >>>>>
> >> gone
> >>
> >>>> into
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the nationalism
> >>>>>> literature. Much of what I have read has
> >>>>>
> >> been
> >>
> >>>>>> structuralist or humanist
> >>>>>> explanations, ways of reasoning that
> >>>>>
> >> Foucault
> >>
> >>>> was
> >>>>
> >>>>>> avoiding. I am trying to
> >>>>>> use the concept of governmentality to ask
> >>>>>
> >> what
> >>
> >>>> kinds
> >>>>
> >>>>>> of national imaginaries
> >>>>>> have informed U.S. education sciences, so in
> >>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>> way I
> >>>>
> >>>>>> am using Foucault's
> >>>>>> concepts rather than concepts of
> >>>>>
> >> nationalism,
> >>
> >>>> but my
> >>>>
> >>>>>> interests intersect
> >>>>>> with the question of nationalism. Perhaps
> >>>>>
> >> this
> >>
> >>>>>> worsens the understanding.
> >>>>>> I hope not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lisa
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Jivko Georgiev
> >>>>>> [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
> >>>>>> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you can't see how biopower relates to
> >>>>>>> nationalism, I don't know what to
> >>>>>>> tell you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
> >>>>>> honestly.
> >>>>>> The nationalism was a question foucault
> >>>>>
> >> never
> >>
> >>>> cared
> >>>>
> >>>>>> about. But my research showed me that
> >>>>>
> >> "ethnic
> >>
> >>>>>> cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>> first
> >>>>>> page of every western newspapper and
> >>>>>
> >> magazin.
> >>
> >>>> And i
> >>>>
> >>>>>> say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
> >>>>>
> >>>> guys?
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
> >>>>>
> >>>> which
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> national borders doesnt exist anymore, and
> >>>>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>>> which
> >>>>
> >>>>>> everyone is nomore of his own race, this
> >>>>>
> >> world
> >>
> >>>> has
> >>>>
> >>>>>> as
> >>>>>> a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
> >>>>>
> >>>> cleansing -
> >>>>
> >>>>>> this western world is forcing, through the
> >>>>>
> >> help
> >>
> >>>> of
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> weapon, the other world to confest that he,
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>> biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he
> >>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>>> doing
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>> world
> >>>>
> >>>>>> doesnt know what that means. Isnt that
> >>>>>
> >> crazy?
> >>
> >>>>>> Assertion of rights and authorship? How
> >>>>>
> >>>> Foucauldian
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> is this?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards!
> >>>>>> Jivko
> >>>>>> --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>> ===== Original Message From
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Calm down.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Some of us are calm when writing this.
> >>>>>>>
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
a "good" of Foucault, (as if one could know) , in spite of self made
claims that it does.
Erik Hoogcarspel wrote:
> Let me tell you a little secret, Jivko: not everything which is in the
> newspaper is true and not every book that's written is trustworthy.
>
> Jivko Georgiev wrote:
>
> > There is a recent article i found today in a western
> > newspaper. The artical is a rewiew of a recent book on
> > the balkans. The author explains shortly the content
> > of the book. Here is the qoutation from the rewiew.
> > Please, read it:
> > " Mazower does not accept the idea that Balkans
> > violence is result of ancient ethnic hatred. The
> > source of the conflict often lay outside the region.
> > VIOLENT NATIONALISM, he stresses, has been IMPORTED IN
> > THE BALKANS FROM WESTERN EUROPE. It was Western Europe
> > that gave the peoples of Soutrhern Europe the
> > ideological weapons with which they could destroy each
> > other - and themselves."
> > Joeri Buhrer Tavanier (author of the rewiew)
> >
> > I havent wrote it. I jsut found it. If You dont trust
> > me , I will send you scanned copy of the article. The
> > newspapper is a newspapper about Bulgaria for
> > foreigners, called "Sofia Echo" - its chief is Brendan
> > Howe. and here is the book:
> >
> > The Balkans: Short History
> > Mark Mazower
> > The Modern Library, New York 2000,
> > $19.95
> >
> >
> > --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Jivko:
> >>
> >> You seem to have committed an odd variation of the
> >> genetic fallacy --
> >> because something originates in X ("the west") it
> >> belongs essentially to
> >> that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be
> >> essentially Arabic. Since you
> >> admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how
> >> does it remain an
> >> exclusively "western" property?
> >>
> >> I do not understand your question about what
> >> Foucault "had in common with
> >> nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a
> >> nationalist, and one can
> >> recognize the importance of nationalism (among other
> >> power formations)
> >> without either affirming its value, its universality
> >> or its supreme
> >> importance.
> >>
> >> Larry
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
> >> Subject: nationalism and the human being
> >>
> >>
> >>> China addopted a western invention - the
> >>
> >> communsim-
> >>
> >>> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> >>> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> >>> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about
> >>
> >> it
> >>
> >>> in a collection called "The postmodern explained
> >>
> >> for
> >>
> >>> children". The communism is cultivating
> >>
> >> nationalism
> >>
> >>> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia).
> >>
> >> I
> >>
> >>> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> >>> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> >>> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody
> >>
> >> else.
> >>
> >>> The west sais, that the opposite of the
> >>
> >> nationalism is
> >>
> >>> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> >>> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we
> >>
> >> know
> >>
> >>> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> >>> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the
> >>
> >> man
> >>
> >>> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me
> >>
> >> again
> >>
> >>> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> >>> nationalism?
> >>>
> >>> Jivko
> >>> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Jivko:
> >>>>
> >>>> You are seriously claiming that there is no
> >>>
> >> Japanese
> >>
> >>>> or Chinese nationalism?
> >>>> Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
> >>>> combination of both? Whether
> >>>> nationalism is a useful concept requires close
> >>>> attention to particular
> >>>> settings. I do not see how anyone could use
> >>>
> >> these
> >>
> >>>> global generalizations
> >>>> about "the west" to understand anything.
> >>>>
> >>>> Larry
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Jivko Georgiev"
> >>>
> >> <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
> >>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I repeat: the nationalism concern only the
> >>>>
> >> western
> >>
> >>>>> world. To the rest of the world it is
> >>>>
> >> irrelevant.
> >>
> >>>>> Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant
> >>>>
> >> issue,
> >>
> >>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>> he avoided it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Zhivko
> >>>>> --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached
> >>>>>
> >> this
> >>
> >>>>>> question. I wonder if a way
> >>>>>> to connect Foucault's work in this
> >>>>>
> >> discussion
> >>
> >>>> about
> >>>>
> >>>>>> nationalism is to
> >>>>>> identify some of the discourses that have
> >>>>>
> >> gone
> >>
> >>>> into
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the nationalism
> >>>>>> literature. Much of what I have read has
> >>>>>
> >> been
> >>
> >>>>>> structuralist or humanist
> >>>>>> explanations, ways of reasoning that
> >>>>>
> >> Foucault
> >>
> >>>> was
> >>>>
> >>>>>> avoiding. I am trying to
> >>>>>> use the concept of governmentality to ask
> >>>>>
> >> what
> >>
> >>>> kinds
> >>>>
> >>>>>> of national imaginaries
> >>>>>> have informed U.S. education sciences, so in
> >>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>> way I
> >>>>
> >>>>>> am using Foucault's
> >>>>>> concepts rather than concepts of
> >>>>>
> >> nationalism,
> >>
> >>>> but my
> >>>>
> >>>>>> interests intersect
> >>>>>> with the question of nationalism. Perhaps
> >>>>>
> >> this
> >>
> >>>>>> worsens the understanding.
> >>>>>> I hope not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lisa
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Jivko Georgiev
> >>>>>> [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
> >>>>>> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you can't see how biopower relates to
> >>>>>>> nationalism, I don't know what to
> >>>>>>> tell you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
> >>>>>> honestly.
> >>>>>> The nationalism was a question foucault
> >>>>>
> >> never
> >>
> >>>> cared
> >>>>
> >>>>>> about. But my research showed me that
> >>>>>
> >> "ethnic
> >>
> >>>>>> cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>> first
> >>>>>> page of every western newspapper and
> >>>>>
> >> magazin.
> >>
> >>>> And i
> >>>>
> >>>>>> say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
> >>>>>
> >>>> guys?
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
> >>>>>
> >>>> which
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> national borders doesnt exist anymore, and
> >>>>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>>> which
> >>>>
> >>>>>> everyone is nomore of his own race, this
> >>>>>
> >> world
> >>
> >>>> has
> >>>>
> >>>>>> as
> >>>>>> a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
> >>>>>
> >>>> cleansing -
> >>>>
> >>>>>> this western world is forcing, through the
> >>>>>
> >> help
> >>
> >>>> of
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> weapon, the other world to confest that he,
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>> biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he
> >>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>>> doing
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>> world
> >>>>
> >>>>>> doesnt know what that means. Isnt that
> >>>>>
> >> crazy?
> >>
> >>>>>> Assertion of rights and authorship? How
> >>>>>
> >>>> Foucauldian
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> is this?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards!
> >>>>>> Jivko
> >>>>>> --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>> ===== Original Message From
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Calm down.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Some of us are calm when writing this.
> >>>>>>>
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> >