Let me tell you a little secret, Jivko: not everything which is in the
newspaper is true and not every book that's written is trustworthy.
Jivko Georgiev wrote:
> There is a recent article i found today in a western
> newspaper. The artical is a rewiew of a recent book on
> the balkans. The author explains shortly the content
> of the book. Here is the qoutation from the rewiew.
> Please, read it:
> " Mazower does not accept the idea that Balkans
> violence is result of ancient ethnic hatred. The
> source of the conflict often lay outside the region.
> VIOLENT NATIONALISM, he stresses, has been IMPORTED IN
> THE BALKANS FROM WESTERN EUROPE. It was Western Europe
> that gave the peoples of Soutrhern Europe the
> ideological weapons with which they could destroy each
> other - and themselves."
> Joeri Buhrer Tavanier (author of the rewiew)
>
> I havent wrote it. I jsut found it. If You dont trust
> me , I will send you scanned copy of the article. The
> newspapper is a newspapper about Bulgaria for
> foreigners, called "Sofia Echo" - its chief is Brendan
> Howe. and here is the book:
>
> The Balkans: Short History
> Mark Mazower
> The Modern Library, New York 2000,
> $19.95
>
>
> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Jivko:
>>
>> You seem to have committed an odd variation of the
>> genetic fallacy --
>> because something originates in X ("the west") it
>> belongs essentially to
>> that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be
>> essentially Arabic. Since you
>> admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how
>> does it remain an
>> exclusively "western" property?
>>
>> I do not understand your question about what
>> Foucault "had in common with
>> nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a
>> nationalist, and one can
>> recognize the importance of nationalism (among other
>> power formations)
>> without either affirming its value, its universality
>> or its supreme
>> importance.
>>
>> Larry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
>> Subject: nationalism and the human being
>>
>>
>>> China addopted a western invention - the
>>
>> communsim-
>>
>>> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
>>> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
>>> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about
>>
>> it
>>
>>> in a collection called "The postmodern explained
>>
>> for
>>
>>> children". The communism is cultivating
>>
>> nationalism
>>
>>> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia).
>>
>> I
>>
>>> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
>>> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
>>> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody
>>
>> else.
>>
>>> The west sais, that the opposite of the
>>
>> nationalism is
>>
>>> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
>>> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we
>>
>> know
>>
>>> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
>>> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the
>>
>> man
>>
>>> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me
>>
>> again
>>
>>> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
>>> nationalism?
>>>
>>> Jivko
>>> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jivko:
>>>>
>>>> You are seriously claiming that there is no
>>>
>> Japanese
>>
>>>> or Chinese nationalism?
>>>> Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
>>>> combination of both? Whether
>>>> nationalism is a useful concept requires close
>>>> attention to particular
>>>> settings. I do not see how anyone could use
>>>
>> these
>>
>>>> global generalizations
>>>> about "the west" to understand anything.
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jivko Georgiev"
>>>
>> <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I repeat: the nationalism concern only the
>>>>
>> western
>>
>>>>> world. To the rest of the world it is
>>>>
>> irrelevant.
>>
>>>>> Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant
>>>>
>> issue,
>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> he avoided it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zhivko
>>>>> --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached
>>>>>
>> this
>>
>>>>>> question. I wonder if a way
>>>>>> to connect Foucault's work in this
>>>>>
>> discussion
>>
>>>> about
>>>>
>>>>>> nationalism is to
>>>>>> identify some of the discourses that have
>>>>>
>> gone
>>
>>>> into
>>>>
>>>>>> the nationalism
>>>>>> literature. Much of what I have read has
>>>>>
>> been
>>
>>>>>> structuralist or humanist
>>>>>> explanations, ways of reasoning that
>>>>>
>> Foucault
>>
>>>> was
>>>>
>>>>>> avoiding. I am trying to
>>>>>> use the concept of governmentality to ask
>>>>>
>> what
>>
>>>> kinds
>>>>
>>>>>> of national imaginaries
>>>>>> have informed U.S. education sciences, so in
>>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>> way I
>>>>
>>>>>> am using Foucault's
>>>>>> concepts rather than concepts of
>>>>>
>> nationalism,
>>
>>>> but my
>>>>
>>>>>> interests intersect
>>>>>> with the question of nationalism. Perhaps
>>>>>
>> this
>>
>>>>>> worsens the understanding.
>>>>>> I hope not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jivko Georgiev
>>>>>> [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
>>>>>> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can't see how biopower relates to
>>>>>>> nationalism, I don't know what to
>>>>>>> tell you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
>>>>>> honestly.
>>>>>> The nationalism was a question foucault
>>>>>
>> never
>>
>>>> cared
>>>>
>>>>>> about. But my research showed me that
>>>>>
>> "ethnic
>>
>>>>>> cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>> first
>>>>>> page of every western newspapper and
>>>>>
>> magazin.
>>
>>>> And i
>>>>
>>>>>> say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
>>>>>
>>>> guys?
>>>>
>>>>>> Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
>>>>>
>>>> which
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> national borders doesnt exist anymore, and
>>>>>
>> in
>>
>>>> which
>>>>
>>>>>> everyone is nomore of his own race, this
>>>>>
>> world
>>
>>>> has
>>>>
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
>>>>>
>>>> cleansing -
>>>>
>>>>>> this western world is forcing, through the
>>>>>
>> help
>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> weapon, the other world to confest that he,
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>> biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he
>>>>>
>> is
>>
>>>> doing
>>>>
>>>>>> the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>> world
>>>>
>>>>>> doesnt know what that means. Isnt that
>>>>>
>> crazy?
>>
>>>>>> Assertion of rights and authorship? How
>>>>>
>>>> Foucauldian
>>>>
>>>>>>> is this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards!
>>>>>> Jivko
>>>>>> --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> ===== Original Message From
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Calm down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of us are calm when writing this.
>>>>>>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
newspaper is true and not every book that's written is trustworthy.
Jivko Georgiev wrote:
> There is a recent article i found today in a western
> newspaper. The artical is a rewiew of a recent book on
> the balkans. The author explains shortly the content
> of the book. Here is the qoutation from the rewiew.
> Please, read it:
> " Mazower does not accept the idea that Balkans
> violence is result of ancient ethnic hatred. The
> source of the conflict often lay outside the region.
> VIOLENT NATIONALISM, he stresses, has been IMPORTED IN
> THE BALKANS FROM WESTERN EUROPE. It was Western Europe
> that gave the peoples of Soutrhern Europe the
> ideological weapons with which they could destroy each
> other - and themselves."
> Joeri Buhrer Tavanier (author of the rewiew)
>
> I havent wrote it. I jsut found it. If You dont trust
> me , I will send you scanned copy of the article. The
> newspapper is a newspapper about Bulgaria for
> foreigners, called "Sofia Echo" - its chief is Brendan
> Howe. and here is the book:
>
> The Balkans: Short History
> Mark Mazower
> The Modern Library, New York 2000,
> $19.95
>
>
> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Jivko:
>>
>> You seem to have committed an odd variation of the
>> genetic fallacy --
>> because something originates in X ("the west") it
>> belongs essentially to
>> that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be
>> essentially Arabic. Since you
>> admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how
>> does it remain an
>> exclusively "western" property?
>>
>> I do not understand your question about what
>> Foucault "had in common with
>> nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a
>> nationalist, and one can
>> recognize the importance of nationalism (among other
>> power formations)
>> without either affirming its value, its universality
>> or its supreme
>> importance.
>>
>> Larry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
>> Subject: nationalism and the human being
>>
>>
>>> China addopted a western invention - the
>>
>> communsim-
>>
>>> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
>>> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
>>> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about
>>
>> it
>>
>>> in a collection called "The postmodern explained
>>
>> for
>>
>>> children". The communism is cultivating
>>
>> nationalism
>>
>>> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia).
>>
>> I
>>
>>> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
>>> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
>>> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody
>>
>> else.
>>
>>> The west sais, that the opposite of the
>>
>> nationalism is
>>
>>> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
>>> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we
>>
>> know
>>
>>> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
>>> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the
>>
>> man
>>
>>> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me
>>
>> again
>>
>>> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
>>> nationalism?
>>>
>>> Jivko
>>> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jivko:
>>>>
>>>> You are seriously claiming that there is no
>>>
>> Japanese
>>
>>>> or Chinese nationalism?
>>>> Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
>>>> combination of both? Whether
>>>> nationalism is a useful concept requires close
>>>> attention to particular
>>>> settings. I do not see how anyone could use
>>>
>> these
>>
>>>> global generalizations
>>>> about "the west" to understand anything.
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jivko Georgiev"
>>>
>> <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I repeat: the nationalism concern only the
>>>>
>> western
>>
>>>>> world. To the rest of the world it is
>>>>
>> irrelevant.
>>
>>>>> Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant
>>>>
>> issue,
>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> he avoided it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zhivko
>>>>> --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached
>>>>>
>> this
>>
>>>>>> question. I wonder if a way
>>>>>> to connect Foucault's work in this
>>>>>
>> discussion
>>
>>>> about
>>>>
>>>>>> nationalism is to
>>>>>> identify some of the discourses that have
>>>>>
>> gone
>>
>>>> into
>>>>
>>>>>> the nationalism
>>>>>> literature. Much of what I have read has
>>>>>
>> been
>>
>>>>>> structuralist or humanist
>>>>>> explanations, ways of reasoning that
>>>>>
>> Foucault
>>
>>>> was
>>>>
>>>>>> avoiding. I am trying to
>>>>>> use the concept of governmentality to ask
>>>>>
>> what
>>
>>>> kinds
>>>>
>>>>>> of national imaginaries
>>>>>> have informed U.S. education sciences, so in
>>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>> way I
>>>>
>>>>>> am using Foucault's
>>>>>> concepts rather than concepts of
>>>>>
>> nationalism,
>>
>>>> but my
>>>>
>>>>>> interests intersect
>>>>>> with the question of nationalism. Perhaps
>>>>>
>> this
>>
>>>>>> worsens the understanding.
>>>>>> I hope not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jivko Georgiev
>>>>>> [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
>>>>>> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can't see how biopower relates to
>>>>>>> nationalism, I don't know what to
>>>>>>> tell you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
>>>>>> honestly.
>>>>>> The nationalism was a question foucault
>>>>>
>> never
>>
>>>> cared
>>>>
>>>>>> about. But my research showed me that
>>>>>
>> "ethnic
>>
>>>>>> cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>> first
>>>>>> page of every western newspapper and
>>>>>
>> magazin.
>>
>>>> And i
>>>>
>>>>>> say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
>>>>>
>>>> guys?
>>>>
>>>>>> Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
>>>>>
>>>> which
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> national borders doesnt exist anymore, and
>>>>>
>> in
>>
>>>> which
>>>>
>>>>>> everyone is nomore of his own race, this
>>>>>
>> world
>>
>>>> has
>>>>
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
>>>>>
>>>> cleansing -
>>>>
>>>>>> this western world is forcing, through the
>>>>>
>> help
>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> weapon, the other world to confest that he,
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>> biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he
>>>>>
>> is
>>
>>>> doing
>>>>
>>>>>> the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>> world
>>>>
>>>>>> doesnt know what that means. Isnt that
>>>>>
>> crazy?
>>
>>>>>> Assertion of rights and authorship? How
>>>>>
>>>> Foucauldian
>>>>
>>>>>>> is this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards!
>>>>>> Jivko
>>>>>> --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> ===== Original Message From
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Calm down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of us are calm when writing this.
>>>>>>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>