Re: Intro.

LOL (laughing-out-loud)
--- charmaine driscoll <missplateau@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

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<DIV></DIV>when is this b ird going to learn to speak
english Jivko you are so wrong about EVERYThhing
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>.>
<DIV></DIV>>that is verry precise said! "process
that creates the
<DIV></DIV>>institutions we are familiar with
today". It does not
<DIV></DIV>>implyes bynary system
"positive-negative attitude".
<DIV></DIV>>I have nothing more to add in this
moment, so please
<DIV></DIV>>excuse me!
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>--- Greg Seppi
<WASISTAUFKUNG@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> > Well, personally I think that
"using" Foucault
<DIV></DIV>> > involves taking what analysis you
want from
<DIV></DIV>> > Foucault's
<DIV></DIV>> > writings and applying that
analysis or
<DIV></DIV>> > deconstruction
<DIV></DIV>> > of myths to whatever struggle you
happen to be
<DIV></DIV>> > engaged
<DIV></DIV>> > in.
<DIV></DIV>> > I had a problem with Foucault's
habits of being
<DIV></DIV>> > non-to-specific when analyzing
institutions, but I
<DIV></DIV>> > think he clarifies his writings
often enough to
<DIV></DIV>> > allow
<DIV></DIV>> > us to assert that his writings in
DP are
<DIV></DIV>> > prison-specific, but also allow
us to view a process
<DIV></DIV>> > that creates the institutions we
are familiar with
<DIV></DIV>> > today, or at least to trace the
involvement of ideal
<DIV></DIV>> > forms of punishment into the
institutions of today.
<DIV></DIV>> > Like he says, if his analysis of
the prison sounds
<DIV></DIV>> > familiar in another institution,
then perhaps
<DIV></DIV>> > there's
<DIV></DIV>> > a reason for that. If it can't,
then there is
<DIV></DIV>> > probably
<DIV></DIV>> > a reason for that too.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Questions? Comments? Reply!
<DIV></DIV>> > -Greg
<DIV></DIV>> > --- Jivko Georgiev
<JIVKOX43GEORGIEV@xxxxxxxxx>
<DIV></DIV>> > wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> > > Your formulations are
precise, but what you make
<DIV></DIV>> > is
<DIV></DIV>> > > a
<DIV></DIV>> > > ascertion:"institutional
'forms' are embedded in
<DIV></DIV>> > > (historical) systems of
knowledge and power?". An
<DIV></DIV>> > > ascertion is not negative
attitude towards what it
<DIV></DIV>> > > ascerts. What Foucault makes
is such ascertions,
<DIV></DIV>> > > that
<DIV></DIV>> > > is what i meant by "mere
historical description".
<DIV></DIV>> > I
<DIV></DIV>> > > guess You dont whant to say
to the man, who posed
<DIV></DIV>> > > his
<DIV></DIV>> > > qouestion, that Foucault has
negative attitude
<DIV></DIV>> > > towards
<DIV></DIV>> > > the shelters for homeless?
He meant a complex of
<DIV></DIV>> > > historical research,
followed by
<DIV></DIV>> > generalizations(in
<DIV></DIV>> > > this formule im not too
sure). But what realy was
<DIV></DIV>> > > that, what F. made? Was it
<DIV></DIV>> > > archeological/genealogical
<DIV></DIV>> > > research, or both research
with generalizations?
<DIV></DIV>> > > That
<DIV></DIV>> > > is a problem to me : How we
should work with F.
<DIV></DIV>> > > writings? Should we search
for generaliztions of
<DIV></DIV>> > the
<DIV></DIV>> > > historical material, or
somethinelse, which i cant
<DIV></DIV>> > > figure out it is?
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Jivko
<DIV></DIV>> > > - that it is one and
<DIV></DIV>> > > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > would it be incorrect
to say that the
<DIV></DIV>> > 'negativity'
<DIV></DIV>> > > > inherent to Foucault's
geneological project
<DIV></DIV>> > > derives
<DIV></DIV>> > > > from the process of
historicizing and
<DIV></DIV>> > > > de-mythologicizing
social institutions?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > Would one be far off
the mark in interpreting
<DIV></DIV>> > this
<DIV></DIV>> > > > process as a way of
de-essentializing the
<DIV></DIV>> > object/s
<DIV></DIV>> > > > of enquiry in such a
way as to show that
<DIV></DIV>> > > > institutional 'forms'
are embedded in
<DIV></DIV>> > (historical)
<DIV></DIV>> > > > systems of knowledge
and power? - that it is one
<DIV></DIV>> > > and
<DIV></DIV>> > > > the same force which
leads to the generation of
<DIV></DIV>> > > > languages of expression
(discourse) and, on the
<DIV></DIV>> > > > other hand, determines
systems of monitoring and
<DIV></DIV>> > > > control? - that
institutions are invested with
<DIV></DIV>> > > > interests of both
liberation and repression?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > Wouldn't describing
Foucault's geneological
<DIV></DIV>> > > project
<DIV></DIV>> > > > simply as 'an
investigation of the history of a
<DIV></DIV>> > > > practice' or 'a mere
historical description of
<DIV></DIV>> > > > practices' go directly
against the thrust of his
<DIV></DIV>> > > > project: ie to show
that what portrays itself as
<DIV></DIV>> > > > 'innocent' curiosity is
another form of
<DIV></DIV>> > > > power-as-monitoring,
that knowledge cannot be
<DIV></DIV>> > > > separated from the
subject who attains it, that
<DIV></DIV>> > > the
<DIV></DIV>> > > > perspective one has the
privilege to gaze from
<DIV></DIV>> > is
<DIV></DIV>> > > > intrinsically linked to
the privilages
<DIV></DIV>> > > appropriated
<DIV></DIV>> > > > by the gaze?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > Wouldn't one be
assimilating Foucault with all
<DIV></DIV>> > > those
<DIV></DIV>> > > > and all that from which
he wanted to distance
<DIV></DIV>> > > > himself, if one were to
neutralise his
<DIV></DIV>> > > 'negativity',
<DIV></DIV>> > > > or pessimism, by
calling his analyses 'objective
<DIV></DIV>> > > > historical
investigations/descriptions'?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > caldon
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
__________________________________________________
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<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>__________________________________________________

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