"Could anyone share a english or spanish traslations of deleuzes note 'What
they would think about us?'"
Iz that the only qwestion?
>From: nairda oremor <oxanairda@xxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: politics of experience: no where to run!!
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:37:55 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Dear all,
>
>Yes, my question certainly refers to the effect that
>drugs have on the thought of these thinkers, but even
>more, it refers about which kind of drugs they used to
>use not as a merely way of life, but a way of thinking
>and producing their particular thought. Foucault
>brings me a lot of doubts on this matter: when I read
>Le mots et les choses I realized that the historical
>retrospective through the classic epoch concerning to
>the arqueologycal method is a point of view that could
>vanish some estructurated enunciations or cathegorical
>implications, in order to find positive knowledge
>beyond historical insterstices. All through that book,
>this positionated view remains to a fenomenologycal
>approach that sounds very lysergic to me (this could
>be a potential trap, as you say, that we can never get
>rid of it) but the controversial book could never
>reach that pretended point of view, without a
>desterritorializazed proposal (concerning to
>epistemology history or philosophy) that Foucault
>might fill in with his own thinking... It is well know
>that after that his was worried about that
>unpredictable effect, and a few months later he wrote
>Larcheology du savoir as a response of the
>methological debt... We could not forget that by that
>time Le mots et les choses was a combat book, that
>detonated a rupture inside the academic circuits...it
>shined as a response of its epoch as well: the
>sixties, a decade of highly psyquedelic tolerance
>(fisiologycally speaking)... besides, french young
>philosophers or french intellectuals were very
>discrete about their use of drugs, it was not mererly
>the case of the american ones, that were very
>extroverted about political implicances concerning to
>psyquedelic tolerance and its consequent opened minded
>ideologies, or even the collective possibility of a
>lucid political conscience...
>
>After the effervecence of that, a few years after
>(surerly the shortest years of the century) Foucault
>wrote Thetrum Philosophicum, with the profound feeling
>of let going some young and intense way of living and
>thinking (his pilgrimage from arqueology to
>genealogy). His comment about LSD and opium might let
>us interpretate that he used to use this drugs
>(homesickness about the huge wave of his epoch, a
>bye-bye of its own epistemical context, a grave to the
>fenomenologycal domain) so, we could follow an
>overcoded interpretation: using Lsd could bring on to
>him the arqueologycal point of view (the one that
>finally collapses the fenomenologycal approach and
>vanishes the estructurated cathegories) and in the
>other hand, using opium might bring on to his work the
>genealogical implicance (the one that configurates
>power and its substancialization, the one that could
>let him walk into the categorical indifference
>unharmed, what is it to say, the one that reveals
>somekind of trangresive transgression. (So, as you can
>notice: I am interested in tracing transversal
>associations betweem the man, the drug, and his
>work...) This intellectual curtain might suit on D&Gs
>work: we could think that they had never used a drug
>and they were some human mediums that could abduce
>empirical wisdom from the otherness, or we could think
>that their way of thinking was actually a product of
>an ionically empirical certitude orientated by the use
>of some drugs.
>
>I just cannot believe what they say in ATP (not
>applied to them, of course) That suggestions couldnot
>inmediatly significate that the use of some drugs
>(but, which one?) was erradicated off their thought.
>That comment was surerly avoiding the fact that their
>thought could promote the use of some drugs?doesnot
>lead us to think that they were flipping out with
>water (instead of that, may suggest that they were far
>beyond the drug experience?.) if it does exist a
>letter to a harsh critic it was as a response to set
>up the intellectual curtain?
>
>Pd (to every one on the list) Could anyone share a
>english or spanish traslations of deleuzes note "What
>they would think about us?"
>
>adr
>
> --- nairda oremor <oxanairda@xxxxxxxxx> escribi: >
>Hi everyone on the list!!!
> >
> > I have been writting about the use of some drugs
> > related to the work of contemporary thinkers:
> > philosofers, antropologysts, psycologists and
> > psyquiatrists... The main argument concerns to make
> > visible and hopefully follow the discourse that make
> > posible the so called "politics of experience"...
> > Anyway, could someone on this list afirm that
> > Deleuze,
> > Foucault or Guattari never used drugs? It is well
> > known that the famous note "Que se va a pensar de
> > nosotros?" (the translation in English could be
> > "What
> > they would think about us") respond to this
> > implications... but, Is there any chance to hesitate
> > about this? We know that Foucault liked opium and in
> > some way he also admited some LSD experiences...:(by
> > that time, Foucault was living a passage between the
> > arqueology and genealogy between the knowledge and
> > power... it makes me think that this passage
> > represents some dark crisis that could be linked to
> > the transition of a mererly arquelogical use of Lsd
> > to
> > a deeply genealogical use of opium... Yes, that
> > hooked
> > Foucault was the one that substancialized powern
> > order
> > to fight it, but underneath the implication of
> > thinking through out the indiference of dope -and
> > any
> > later the third Foucault, Foucault the Greek,
> > Foucault
> > worried about the selfcare-)...
> >
> > In the other hand, i dont have any reference to link
> >
> > Deleuze or Guattaris work to the use of any drug...
> > this makes me think that is simply imposible to
> > imagine them in soberland... Somehow this must lead
> > to
> > the cultural fight that consagrates political
> > mandarinates: just like the case of Gregory Batesons
> > leadership in Palo alto: he want us to believe that
> > he
> > used lsd only once, at the time that it is well know
> > his large friendship with Al Hubbard, and when his
> > work could be posibly infested of lsds logical
> > formalization (this guy wanted us to think that all
> > his empirical wisdom was some kind of enlighted fart
> > emanated from his antropological geniality)
> > Well, i can say that Bateson political position
> > could
> > irritate D&G, and this could be a reason that would
> > orientate D&Gs work, only just: we can remember that
> > on Antiedipe they said that the doble bind theory
> > was
> > somehow respectfull (maybe not beacuse it was
> > politizazed or edipizazed, but because its empirical
> > richness), and we can also remember ATPs geology of
> > moral: the doble bind theory leads us to the doble
> > articulation of the stratas...
> >
> > As you can see, fortunatly, this essay could
> > fulminate
> > my mind, and I really need some good advice over
> > here, please...
> >
> > Oops! i almost forgot: Could anyone share a english
> > or
> > spanish traslations of deleuzes note "What they
> > would
> > think about us?" (or some other references related
> > to
> > D&Gs use or non use of drugs?)
> >
> > thanks anyway
> >
> > Postdata:
> > About politics of experience i always have in mind
> > this words: THERE IS NO WHERE TO RUN!!!!
> >
> > so bye..
> >
> > adr
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Informacin de Estados Unidos y Amrica Latina, en
> > Yahoo! Noticias.
> > Vistanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Informacin de Estados Unidos y Amrica Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias.
>Vistanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
they would think about us?'"
Iz that the only qwestion?
>From: nairda oremor <oxanairda@xxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: politics of experience: no where to run!!
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:37:55 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Dear all,
>
>Yes, my question certainly refers to the effect that
>drugs have on the thought of these thinkers, but even
>more, it refers about which kind of drugs they used to
>use not as a merely way of life, but a way of thinking
>and producing their particular thought. Foucault
>brings me a lot of doubts on this matter: when I read
>Le mots et les choses I realized that the historical
>retrospective through the classic epoch concerning to
>the arqueologycal method is a point of view that could
>vanish some estructurated enunciations or cathegorical
>implications, in order to find positive knowledge
>beyond historical insterstices. All through that book,
>this positionated view remains to a fenomenologycal
>approach that sounds very lysergic to me (this could
>be a potential trap, as you say, that we can never get
>rid of it) but the controversial book could never
>reach that pretended point of view, without a
>desterritorializazed proposal (concerning to
>epistemology history or philosophy) that Foucault
>might fill in with his own thinking... It is well know
>that after that his was worried about that
>unpredictable effect, and a few months later he wrote
>Larcheology du savoir as a response of the
>methological debt... We could not forget that by that
>time Le mots et les choses was a combat book, that
>detonated a rupture inside the academic circuits...it
>shined as a response of its epoch as well: the
>sixties, a decade of highly psyquedelic tolerance
>(fisiologycally speaking)... besides, french young
>philosophers or french intellectuals were very
>discrete about their use of drugs, it was not mererly
>the case of the american ones, that were very
>extroverted about political implicances concerning to
>psyquedelic tolerance and its consequent opened minded
>ideologies, or even the collective possibility of a
>lucid political conscience...
>
>After the effervecence of that, a few years after
>(surerly the shortest years of the century) Foucault
>wrote Thetrum Philosophicum, with the profound feeling
>of let going some young and intense way of living and
>thinking (his pilgrimage from arqueology to
>genealogy). His comment about LSD and opium might let
>us interpretate that he used to use this drugs
>(homesickness about the huge wave of his epoch, a
>bye-bye of its own epistemical context, a grave to the
>fenomenologycal domain) so, we could follow an
>overcoded interpretation: using Lsd could bring on to
>him the arqueologycal point of view (the one that
>finally collapses the fenomenologycal approach and
>vanishes the estructurated cathegories) and in the
>other hand, using opium might bring on to his work the
>genealogical implicance (the one that configurates
>power and its substancialization, the one that could
>let him walk into the categorical indifference
>unharmed, what is it to say, the one that reveals
>somekind of trangresive transgression. (So, as you can
>notice: I am interested in tracing transversal
>associations betweem the man, the drug, and his
>work...) This intellectual curtain might suit on D&Gs
>work: we could think that they had never used a drug
>and they were some human mediums that could abduce
>empirical wisdom from the otherness, or we could think
>that their way of thinking was actually a product of
>an ionically empirical certitude orientated by the use
>of some drugs.
>
>I just cannot believe what they say in ATP (not
>applied to them, of course) That suggestions couldnot
>inmediatly significate that the use of some drugs
>(but, which one?) was erradicated off their thought.
>That comment was surerly avoiding the fact that their
>thought could promote the use of some drugs?doesnot
>lead us to think that they were flipping out with
>water (instead of that, may suggest that they were far
>beyond the drug experience?.) if it does exist a
>letter to a harsh critic it was as a response to set
>up the intellectual curtain?
>
>Pd (to every one on the list) Could anyone share a
>english or spanish traslations of deleuzes note "What
>they would think about us?"
>
>adr
>
> --- nairda oremor <oxanairda@xxxxxxxxx> escribi: >
>Hi everyone on the list!!!
> >
> > I have been writting about the use of some drugs
> > related to the work of contemporary thinkers:
> > philosofers, antropologysts, psycologists and
> > psyquiatrists... The main argument concerns to make
> > visible and hopefully follow the discourse that make
> > posible the so called "politics of experience"...
> > Anyway, could someone on this list afirm that
> > Deleuze,
> > Foucault or Guattari never used drugs? It is well
> > known that the famous note "Que se va a pensar de
> > nosotros?" (the translation in English could be
> > "What
> > they would think about us") respond to this
> > implications... but, Is there any chance to hesitate
> > about this? We know that Foucault liked opium and in
> > some way he also admited some LSD experiences...:(by
> > that time, Foucault was living a passage between the
> > arqueology and genealogy between the knowledge and
> > power... it makes me think that this passage
> > represents some dark crisis that could be linked to
> > the transition of a mererly arquelogical use of Lsd
> > to
> > a deeply genealogical use of opium... Yes, that
> > hooked
> > Foucault was the one that substancialized powern
> > order
> > to fight it, but underneath the implication of
> > thinking through out the indiference of dope -and
> > any
> > later the third Foucault, Foucault the Greek,
> > Foucault
> > worried about the selfcare-)...
> >
> > In the other hand, i dont have any reference to link
> >
> > Deleuze or Guattaris work to the use of any drug...
> > this makes me think that is simply imposible to
> > imagine them in soberland... Somehow this must lead
> > to
> > the cultural fight that consagrates political
> > mandarinates: just like the case of Gregory Batesons
> > leadership in Palo alto: he want us to believe that
> > he
> > used lsd only once, at the time that it is well know
> > his large friendship with Al Hubbard, and when his
> > work could be posibly infested of lsds logical
> > formalization (this guy wanted us to think that all
> > his empirical wisdom was some kind of enlighted fart
> > emanated from his antropological geniality)
> > Well, i can say that Bateson political position
> > could
> > irritate D&G, and this could be a reason that would
> > orientate D&Gs work, only just: we can remember that
> > on Antiedipe they said that the doble bind theory
> > was
> > somehow respectfull (maybe not beacuse it was
> > politizazed or edipizazed, but because its empirical
> > richness), and we can also remember ATPs geology of
> > moral: the doble bind theory leads us to the doble
> > articulation of the stratas...
> >
> > As you can see, fortunatly, this essay could
> > fulminate
> > my mind, and I really need some good advice over
> > here, please...
> >
> > Oops! i almost forgot: Could anyone share a english
> > or
> > spanish traslations of deleuzes note "What they
> > would
> > think about us?" (or some other references related
> > to
> > D&Gs use or non use of drugs?)
> >
> > thanks anyway
> >
> > Postdata:
> > About politics of experience i always have in mind
> > this words: THERE IS NO WHERE TO RUN!!!!
> >
> > so bye..
> >
> > adr
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Informacin de Estados Unidos y Amrica Latina, en
> > Yahoo! Noticias.
> > Vistanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Informacin de Estados Unidos y Amrica Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias.
>Vistanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx