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<P>Fruther to my comments, I would like to suggest a new thread based on a debate I saw on Television last night.</P>
<P>The question of interest perhaps is regarding the mode in which people are made to be submissive. Submission caused by various processes that may lead to a population of people:</P>
<P>- irrationally enthusiastic for sustainability (people who would have never entertained the idea)</P>
<P>A part of Australia has been made submissive regarding sustainability issues. </P>
<P>Having been studying sustainability discourse for the past three years I was amused to see that Peter Garrett (lead singer of Midnight Oil and environmental activist) refused to engage in open discourse with Bjorn Lomborg (author of a book criticising the environmental movement). Garrett appears to have been following Michel Foucault in refusing to engage in polemics, but I do not believe such a strategy to be valid in this case. Lomborg comes to the debate with substantiated facts worth listening to. He has alternatives worth hearing. Lomborg replied to Garrett 'This is the problem I have with this kind of argument. You think you're so right that you can also just deny the numbers that we all understand and that we all agree to.' He is right. Garrett reminded me of Prime Minister (of Australia) John Howard ?I stand by what I said previously?; a good tactic for a politician who realizes that there is a Foucauldian dossier of records composed of every public appearance. Garrett is captive of his own rhetoric and unable to entertain any discussion about an alternate point of view.</P>
<P>With that in mind, could the submission towards sustainability that has been created undermine Australia's ability to go to war and defend itself if the situation arose?</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN 8 helps <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMJEN/2020";>ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. </a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html>
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From: Lionel Boxer <lboxer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Violence as a Struggle Against Weakness
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:54:28 +1100
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<DIV></DIV>> Professor Jorge M. Roche refines my metaphor "Warfare as Submission" by </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>suggesting that if my hypothesis is correct, "What we might empirically
<DIV></DIV>>expect is that those individuals who are more submissive are also more likely
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to be more aggressive than less submissive ones."</P>
<P>That makes sense. Submissive individuals are easier to coerce. I would not say that is the same as weaker individuals. My feeling is that a homogenous social context contributes to docility, utility and governmentality. When exernal influences dilute a homogenous social context stability declines:</P>
<P>- Japan in the past 10 years</P>
<P>- Western society in the past 50 years </P>
<P>The question of interest perhaps is regarding the mode in which people are made to be submissive. Submission caused by various processes that may lead to a population of people:</P>
<P>- irrationally enthusiastic for war (people who would have never entertained the idea) </P>
<P>- irrationally enthusiastuc for sustainability (people who would have never entertained the idea)</P>
<P>- irrationally enthuasiastic for gay sex (people who would have never entertained the idea) </P>
<P>In other words, the mode of creating the submission may alter what the submissive society may be harnessed to do.</P>
<P>Lionel</P></div><br clear=all><hr>Help STOP SPAM with <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMKEN/2016";>the new MSN 8 </a> and get 2 months FREE*</html>
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<P>Fruther to my comments, I would like to suggest a new thread based on a debate I saw on Television last night.</P>
<P>The question of interest perhaps is regarding the mode in which people are made to be submissive. Submission caused by various processes that may lead to a population of people:</P>
<P>- irrationally enthusiastic for sustainability (people who would have never entertained the idea)</P>
<P>A part of Australia has been made submissive regarding sustainability issues. </P>
<P>Having been studying sustainability discourse for the past three years I was amused to see that Peter Garrett (lead singer of Midnight Oil and environmental activist) refused to engage in open discourse with Bjorn Lomborg (author of a book criticising the environmental movement). Garrett appears to have been following Michel Foucault in refusing to engage in polemics, but I do not believe such a strategy to be valid in this case. Lomborg comes to the debate with substantiated facts worth listening to. He has alternatives worth hearing. Lomborg replied to Garrett 'This is the problem I have with this kind of argument. You think you're so right that you can also just deny the numbers that we all understand and that we all agree to.' He is right. Garrett reminded me of Prime Minister (of Australia) John Howard ?I stand by what I said previously?; a good tactic for a politician who realizes that there is a Foucauldian dossier of records composed of every public appearance. Garrett is captive of his own rhetoric and unable to entertain any discussion about an alternate point of view.</P>
<P>With that in mind, could the submission towards sustainability that has been created undermine Australia's ability to go to war and defend itself if the situation arose?</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN 8 helps <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMJEN/2020";>ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. </a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html>
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From: Lionel Boxer <lboxer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Violence as a Struggle Against Weakness
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:54:28 +1100
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Professor Jorge M. Roche refines my metaphor "Warfare as Submission" by </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>suggesting that if my hypothesis is correct, "What we might empirically
<DIV></DIV>>expect is that those individuals who are more submissive are also more likely
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to be more aggressive than less submissive ones."</P>
<P>That makes sense. Submissive individuals are easier to coerce. I would not say that is the same as weaker individuals. My feeling is that a homogenous social context contributes to docility, utility and governmentality. When exernal influences dilute a homogenous social context stability declines:</P>
<P>- Japan in the past 10 years</P>
<P>- Western society in the past 50 years </P>
<P>The question of interest perhaps is regarding the mode in which people are made to be submissive. Submission caused by various processes that may lead to a population of people:</P>
<P>- irrationally enthusiastic for war (people who would have never entertained the idea) </P>
<P>- irrationally enthusiastuc for sustainability (people who would have never entertained the idea)</P>
<P>- irrationally enthuasiastic for gay sex (people who would have never entertained the idea) </P>
<P>In other words, the mode of creating the submission may alter what the submissive society may be harnessed to do.</P>
<P>Lionel</P></div><br clear=all><hr>Help STOP SPAM with <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMKEN/2016";>the new MSN 8 </a> and get 2 months FREE*</html>
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