I'm sorry. How exactly was the conclusion theorized in relation to
Discipline and Punish?
>From: Lionel Boxer <lboxer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: Discipline and Punish: "Like Sheep to the Slaughter"
>Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:43:37 +1100
>
>I agree with your observation that the leader's perception of his rights to
>do as he chooses. It is interesting that your conclusion comes out of
>Discipline and Punish, as I have drawn a similar conclusion in my PhD
>thesis from ideas embedded in that work.
>
>Lionel
>
>>From: PsycheCulture@xxxxxx
>>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: Discipline and Punish: "Like Sheep to the Slaughter"
>>Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:08:05 EST
>>
>> I have suggested that the violence of the Nazis may be understood
>>by
>>focusing on the psychic stance of SUBMISSION. Yet as Matthew Bradley
>>notes,
>>studies of the Nazi era often characterize JEWS as submissive.
>>Specifically,
>>it is suggested that by not sufficiently resisting the actions that led to
>>the Holocaust, Jews went "like sheep to the slaughter."
>>
>> Omer Bartov has compared the Holocaust to World War I, the latter
>>being
>>an earlier case of "industrial killing" sponsored by the nation-state.
>>Indeed, the First World War was an equally bizarre and destructive event
>>that
>>led to the deaths of millions of human beings.
>>
>> The expression "like sheep to the slaughter" may be applied to each
>>of
>>these events. In each case, participants were unaware of their ultimate
>>fate.
>>The death of young men in the First World War--like the deaths of
>>Holocaust
>>victims--may be characterized as the SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENTS.
>>
>> Peter Whalen writes about the youthful, idealistic German soldiers
>>and
>>the image of a locomotive rushing across Germany, headed toward the Front.
>>Aboard the train, hundred of young men in new field-gray uniforms were
>>gaily
>>singing patriotic songs. These young men, like soldiers from every nation
>>in
>>the First World War, barely knew where they were going or what they were
>>getting into.
>>
>> The mass-slaughter of soldiers began in 1914 and continued until
>>1918.
>>Two million German soldiers were killed and millions more wounded. Here is
>>a
>>description of a "battle" at the Somme on August 18, 1916, when German
>>troops
>>counter-attacked from their positions in Leuze Wood. The war correspondent
>>Philip Gibbs saw them advance towards the British trenches, 'shoulder to
>>shoulder, like a solid bar'. It was 'sheer suicide', he wrote:
>>
>>I saw our men get their machine-guns into action, and the right side of
>>the
>>living bar frittered away, and then the whole line fell into the scorched
>>grass. Another line followed. They were tall men, and did not falter as
>>they
>>came forward, but it seemed to me they walked like men conscious of going
>>to
>>death. They died. The simile is outworn, but it is exactly as though some
>>invisible scythe had mown them down.
>>
>>German soldiers died LIKE SHEEP GOING TO THE SLAUGHTER.
>>
>> Hitler fought in World War I and witnessed the endless slaughter of
>>his
>>own comrades. He was a fierce nationalist and refused to protest against
>>what
>>occurred. In MEIN KAMPF he said, "When in the long war years Death
>>snatched
>>so many a dear comrade and friend from our ranks, it would have seemed to
>>me
>>almost a sin to complain-after all, were they not dying for Germany?"
>>
>>From the perspective of Hitler and others who embrace the ideology of
>>nationalism, the term "submission" as a description of the soldier's
>>posture
>>would be considered offensive. We do not characterize willingness to die
>>for
>>one's country as submission to the state. Rather, since it is for the
>>sacred
>>ideal that one is willing to die, we this psychic stance to be noble and
>>beautiful.
>>
>>What was the Holocaust? The Holocaust was depiction or enactment of
>>SUBMISSION TO THE NATION-STATE IN ITS MOST EXTREME OR ABSOLUTE FORM.
>>
>> In his study of the First World War, Denis Winter notes the
>>resemblance
>>between soldiers sent to die in the First World War and Jews sent to die
>>in
>>the Holocaust. He writes about the experience of German soldiers as they
>>were
>>transported to battle in cattle cars:
>>
>>After the stint at base, the railway took the men toward the front line.
>>To a
>>generation with visual memories of the railway lines running into Hitler's
>>death camps, tense faces peering from cattle trucks, there is something
>>disconcerting about the imagery of this journey from base camp. The
>>soldiers
>>went in wagons of the same type, forty of them in each wagon, kit hanging
>>from hoods in the roof. Death was a high probability for both generations
>>of
>>travelers in these cattle trucks.
>>
>> Hitler understood warfare an opportunity to SACRIFICE ONE'S LIFE
>>FOR
>>ONE'S NATION. He noted that in World War I "the most precious blood
>>sacrificed itself joyfully." He observed that military service represented
>>the duty to "sacrifice the life of the individual, always and forever, at
>>all
>>times and places." He observed that more than once, "thousands and
>>thousands
>>of young Germans have stepped forward with resolve to sacrifice their
>>young
>>lives freely and joyfully on the altar of the beloved father land."
>>
>> Hitler knew that he was permitted as "leader of his nation" to send
>>millions of German soldiers to their deaths in battle (just as the leaders
>>of
>>Germany and other nation-states had been allowed send millions of soldiers
>>to
>>die in the First World War). Indeed, felt that if he succeeded in his
>>military efforts, he would go down in history as a great warrior or
>>conqueror, notwithstanding the millions who might die.
>>
>> As the Einsatzgruppen murdered millions of Jews in late 1941 and
>>early
>>1942 east of the Soviet border, Hitler professed to be undisturbed by the
>>extermination of men, women and children: "IF I DON'T MIND SENDING THE
>>PICK
>>OF THE GERMAN PEOPLE INTO THE HELL OF WAR WITHOUT REGRET FOR THE SHEDDING
>>OF
>>VALUABLE GERMANY BLOOD, THEN I HAVE NATURALLY THE RIGHT TO DESTROY
>>MILLIONS
>>OF MEN OF INFERIOR RACES WHO INCREASE LIKE VERMIN."
>>
>> This thought reveals the meaning of the Holocaust. The Final
>>Solution
>>was undertaken by Hitler based on the logic of warfare. In this bizarre
>>enactment, Hitler was posed the following question: IF I HAVE THE RIGHT AS
>>NATIONAL LEADER TO SEND GERMAN SOLDIERS (the best human beings) TO THEIR
>>DEATHS IN WARFARE, DO I NOT ALSO HAVE THE RIGHT TO SEND JEWS (the worst
>>human
>>beings) TO THEIR DEATHS?
>>
>> The Holocaust depicted the nature of warfare and experience of the
>>soldier that we deny, namely SUFFERING AND DEATH AS SUBMISSION TO THE
>>NATION-STATE, now however stripped of words such as glory, heroism, and
>>honor.
>>
>>With regards,
>>
>>Richard Koenigsberg
>>
>>Richard Koenigsberg, Ph. D.
>>Director, Library of Social Science
>
>
>_____________________________________________
>// How do senior managers
>///// deliberate regarding
>/////// triple-bottom-line
>/////// issues?
>_ _ _ _ //////
>|_|_|_|_|//////_| http://www.geocities.com/lionelboxer/phd
>|_|_|_|_//////|_|
>|_|_|_|//////_|_|
>|_|/////////|_|_| Lionel Boxer CD MBA BTech(IE)
>|_/////////_|_|_| Management Consultant
>|//////_|_|_|_|_| mobile: 0411267256
>I N T E R G O N
>PO Box 2013 http://intergon.freeyellow.com
>South Melbourne, Victoria, 3205
>Australia http://surf.to/lionel
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Discipline and Punish?
>From: Lionel Boxer <lboxer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: Discipline and Punish: "Like Sheep to the Slaughter"
>Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:43:37 +1100
>
>I agree with your observation that the leader's perception of his rights to
>do as he chooses. It is interesting that your conclusion comes out of
>Discipline and Punish, as I have drawn a similar conclusion in my PhD
>thesis from ideas embedded in that work.
>
>Lionel
>
>>From: PsycheCulture@xxxxxx
>>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: Discipline and Punish: "Like Sheep to the Slaughter"
>>Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:08:05 EST
>>
>> I have suggested that the violence of the Nazis may be understood
>>by
>>focusing on the psychic stance of SUBMISSION. Yet as Matthew Bradley
>>notes,
>>studies of the Nazi era often characterize JEWS as submissive.
>>Specifically,
>>it is suggested that by not sufficiently resisting the actions that led to
>>the Holocaust, Jews went "like sheep to the slaughter."
>>
>> Omer Bartov has compared the Holocaust to World War I, the latter
>>being
>>an earlier case of "industrial killing" sponsored by the nation-state.
>>Indeed, the First World War was an equally bizarre and destructive event
>>that
>>led to the deaths of millions of human beings.
>>
>> The expression "like sheep to the slaughter" may be applied to each
>>of
>>these events. In each case, participants were unaware of their ultimate
>>fate.
>>The death of young men in the First World War--like the deaths of
>>Holocaust
>>victims--may be characterized as the SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENTS.
>>
>> Peter Whalen writes about the youthful, idealistic German soldiers
>>and
>>the image of a locomotive rushing across Germany, headed toward the Front.
>>Aboard the train, hundred of young men in new field-gray uniforms were
>>gaily
>>singing patriotic songs. These young men, like soldiers from every nation
>>in
>>the First World War, barely knew where they were going or what they were
>>getting into.
>>
>> The mass-slaughter of soldiers began in 1914 and continued until
>>1918.
>>Two million German soldiers were killed and millions more wounded. Here is
>>a
>>description of a "battle" at the Somme on August 18, 1916, when German
>>troops
>>counter-attacked from their positions in Leuze Wood. The war correspondent
>>Philip Gibbs saw them advance towards the British trenches, 'shoulder to
>>shoulder, like a solid bar'. It was 'sheer suicide', he wrote:
>>
>>I saw our men get their machine-guns into action, and the right side of
>>the
>>living bar frittered away, and then the whole line fell into the scorched
>>grass. Another line followed. They were tall men, and did not falter as
>>they
>>came forward, but it seemed to me they walked like men conscious of going
>>to
>>death. They died. The simile is outworn, but it is exactly as though some
>>invisible scythe had mown them down.
>>
>>German soldiers died LIKE SHEEP GOING TO THE SLAUGHTER.
>>
>> Hitler fought in World War I and witnessed the endless slaughter of
>>his
>>own comrades. He was a fierce nationalist and refused to protest against
>>what
>>occurred. In MEIN KAMPF he said, "When in the long war years Death
>>snatched
>>so many a dear comrade and friend from our ranks, it would have seemed to
>>me
>>almost a sin to complain-after all, were they not dying for Germany?"
>>
>>From the perspective of Hitler and others who embrace the ideology of
>>nationalism, the term "submission" as a description of the soldier's
>>posture
>>would be considered offensive. We do not characterize willingness to die
>>for
>>one's country as submission to the state. Rather, since it is for the
>>sacred
>>ideal that one is willing to die, we this psychic stance to be noble and
>>beautiful.
>>
>>What was the Holocaust? The Holocaust was depiction or enactment of
>>SUBMISSION TO THE NATION-STATE IN ITS MOST EXTREME OR ABSOLUTE FORM.
>>
>> In his study of the First World War, Denis Winter notes the
>>resemblance
>>between soldiers sent to die in the First World War and Jews sent to die
>>in
>>the Holocaust. He writes about the experience of German soldiers as they
>>were
>>transported to battle in cattle cars:
>>
>>After the stint at base, the railway took the men toward the front line.
>>To a
>>generation with visual memories of the railway lines running into Hitler's
>>death camps, tense faces peering from cattle trucks, there is something
>>disconcerting about the imagery of this journey from base camp. The
>>soldiers
>>went in wagons of the same type, forty of them in each wagon, kit hanging
>>from hoods in the roof. Death was a high probability for both generations
>>of
>>travelers in these cattle trucks.
>>
>> Hitler understood warfare an opportunity to SACRIFICE ONE'S LIFE
>>FOR
>>ONE'S NATION. He noted that in World War I "the most precious blood
>>sacrificed itself joyfully." He observed that military service represented
>>the duty to "sacrifice the life of the individual, always and forever, at
>>all
>>times and places." He observed that more than once, "thousands and
>>thousands
>>of young Germans have stepped forward with resolve to sacrifice their
>>young
>>lives freely and joyfully on the altar of the beloved father land."
>>
>> Hitler knew that he was permitted as "leader of his nation" to send
>>millions of German soldiers to their deaths in battle (just as the leaders
>>of
>>Germany and other nation-states had been allowed send millions of soldiers
>>to
>>die in the First World War). Indeed, felt that if he succeeded in his
>>military efforts, he would go down in history as a great warrior or
>>conqueror, notwithstanding the millions who might die.
>>
>> As the Einsatzgruppen murdered millions of Jews in late 1941 and
>>early
>>1942 east of the Soviet border, Hitler professed to be undisturbed by the
>>extermination of men, women and children: "IF I DON'T MIND SENDING THE
>>PICK
>>OF THE GERMAN PEOPLE INTO THE HELL OF WAR WITHOUT REGRET FOR THE SHEDDING
>>OF
>>VALUABLE GERMANY BLOOD, THEN I HAVE NATURALLY THE RIGHT TO DESTROY
>>MILLIONS
>>OF MEN OF INFERIOR RACES WHO INCREASE LIKE VERMIN."
>>
>> This thought reveals the meaning of the Holocaust. The Final
>>Solution
>>was undertaken by Hitler based on the logic of warfare. In this bizarre
>>enactment, Hitler was posed the following question: IF I HAVE THE RIGHT AS
>>NATIONAL LEADER TO SEND GERMAN SOLDIERS (the best human beings) TO THEIR
>>DEATHS IN WARFARE, DO I NOT ALSO HAVE THE RIGHT TO SEND JEWS (the worst
>>human
>>beings) TO THEIR DEATHS?
>>
>> The Holocaust depicted the nature of warfare and experience of the
>>soldier that we deny, namely SUFFERING AND DEATH AS SUBMISSION TO THE
>>NATION-STATE, now however stripped of words such as glory, heroism, and
>>honor.
>>
>>With regards,
>>
>>Richard Koenigsberg
>>
>>Richard Koenigsberg, Ph. D.
>>Director, Library of Social Science
>
>
>_____________________________________________
>// How do senior managers
>///// deliberate regarding
>/////// triple-bottom-line
>/////// issues?
>_ _ _ _ //////
>|_|_|_|_|//////_| http://www.geocities.com/lionelboxer/phd
>|_|_|_|_//////|_|
>|_|_|_|//////_|_|
>|_|/////////|_|_| Lionel Boxer CD MBA BTech(IE)
>|_/////////_|_|_| Management Consultant
>|//////_|_|_|_|_| mobile: 0411267256
>I N T E R G O N
>PO Box 2013 http://intergon.freeyellow.com
>South Melbourne, Victoria, 3205
>Australia http://surf.to/lionel
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus