My Mexican friend Juan.Caldera@xxxxxxxxxxx provides this insight (I think
the Spanish and the French see things differently to we Anglos):
"I think that Nietzsche was ironic when he quoted the "fameux perspective
des grenouilles". Grenouilles (frogs) are condemned to walk so close to the
earth hence they can't see much ahead because they can't have a reasonable
perspective of things (that is, in this metaphor, the perspective of
history). I wonder who can. JC"
Lionel Boxer - 0411267256 - lboxer@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://intergon.freeyellow.com/maaoe
----------------------------------------------
In 1976 Michale Foucualt said: ... terrorism ... has a totally opposite
effect which is to make the bourgeois class even more closely attached to
its ideology ... (original in French) 'Le Savoir Comme Crime'
----------------------------------------------
>From: newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: frogs, mountains, nietzsche
>Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:48:20 +0000
>
>It is probably a reference to section 2 of Beyond Good and Evil, where
>Nietzsche writes: "For one may doubt, first, whether there are any
>opposites
>at all, secondly whether these popular valuations and opposite values on
>which
>the metaphysicians put their seal, are not perhaps merely foreground
>estimates, only provisional perspectives, perhaps even from some nook,
>perhaps
>from below, frog perspectives, as it were, to borrow an expression painters
>use. For all the value of the true, the truthful, the selfless may
>deserve,
>it would still be possible that a higher and more fundamental value for
>life
>might have to be ascribed to deception, selfishness, and lust. It might
>even
>be possible that what constitutes the value of these good and revered
>things
>is precisely that they are insidiously related, tied to, and involved with
>these wicked, seemingly opposite things maybe even one with them in
>essence.
> Maybe!"
>
>
>Nathan
>
>
> >===== Original Message From Clare O'Farrell <panopticon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>=====
> >The list has been very quiet of late - no doubt due to recent events.
> >Intellectuals such as Foucault are sorely missed in such times.
> >
> >However this is a totally frivolous enquiry, just to satisfy my
>curiosity.
> >
> >I was rereading Nietzsche, Genealogy and History and on p.89 of the
> >translation in Rabinow's Foucault Reader came across this sentence
> >'[Traditional history] accomplishes this by getting as near as
> >possible, placing itself at the foot of its mountain peaks, at the
> >risk of adopting the famous perspective of frogs.' I'm not quite sure
> >I like that translation: the last bit in French is 'quitte a avoir
> >sur eux la fameuse perspective des genouilles'. Does anybody know
> >what Foucault is alluding to here? I tried a google search and came
> >up with
> >1. The Japanese poet Kusano Shimpei
> >2. A few references in Nietzsche about people who walk with the gait
> >of frogs and how yuck frogs are in general
> >3. The Aristophanes play The Frogs.
> >
> >I think the same reference has also been picked up by the ex Monty
> >Python crew in the episode of Ripping Yarns titled 'Across the Andes
> >by Frog'.
> >--
> >Clare
> >************************************************
> >Clare O'Farrell
> >email: panopticon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >website: http://www.foucault.qut.edu.au
> >************************************************
>
>Dr. Nathan Widder
>Lecturer in Political Theory
>University of Exeter
>Exeter EX4 4RJ
>United Kingdom
>Web page: http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/politics/staff/widder/
>Genealogies of Difference: http://www.press.uillinois.edu/s02/widder.html
>MA in Critical Global Studies:
>http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/school/ma/global.php
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp
the Spanish and the French see things differently to we Anglos):
"I think that Nietzsche was ironic when he quoted the "fameux perspective
des grenouilles". Grenouilles (frogs) are condemned to walk so close to the
earth hence they can't see much ahead because they can't have a reasonable
perspective of things (that is, in this metaphor, the perspective of
history). I wonder who can. JC"
Lionel Boxer - 0411267256 - lboxer@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://intergon.freeyellow.com/maaoe
----------------------------------------------
In 1976 Michale Foucualt said: ... terrorism ... has a totally opposite
effect which is to make the bourgeois class even more closely attached to
its ideology ... (original in French) 'Le Savoir Comme Crime'
----------------------------------------------
>From: newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: frogs, mountains, nietzsche
>Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:48:20 +0000
>
>It is probably a reference to section 2 of Beyond Good and Evil, where
>Nietzsche writes: "For one may doubt, first, whether there are any
>opposites
>at all, secondly whether these popular valuations and opposite values on
>which
>the metaphysicians put their seal, are not perhaps merely foreground
>estimates, only provisional perspectives, perhaps even from some nook,
>perhaps
>from below, frog perspectives, as it were, to borrow an expression painters
>use. For all the value of the true, the truthful, the selfless may
>deserve,
>it would still be possible that a higher and more fundamental value for
>life
>might have to be ascribed to deception, selfishness, and lust. It might
>even
>be possible that what constitutes the value of these good and revered
>things
>is precisely that they are insidiously related, tied to, and involved with
>these wicked, seemingly opposite things maybe even one with them in
>essence.
> Maybe!"
>
>
>Nathan
>
>
> >===== Original Message From Clare O'Farrell <panopticon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>=====
> >The list has been very quiet of late - no doubt due to recent events.
> >Intellectuals such as Foucault are sorely missed in such times.
> >
> >However this is a totally frivolous enquiry, just to satisfy my
>curiosity.
> >
> >I was rereading Nietzsche, Genealogy and History and on p.89 of the
> >translation in Rabinow's Foucault Reader came across this sentence
> >'[Traditional history] accomplishes this by getting as near as
> >possible, placing itself at the foot of its mountain peaks, at the
> >risk of adopting the famous perspective of frogs.' I'm not quite sure
> >I like that translation: the last bit in French is 'quitte a avoir
> >sur eux la fameuse perspective des genouilles'. Does anybody know
> >what Foucault is alluding to here? I tried a google search and came
> >up with
> >1. The Japanese poet Kusano Shimpei
> >2. A few references in Nietzsche about people who walk with the gait
> >of frogs and how yuck frogs are in general
> >3. The Aristophanes play The Frogs.
> >
> >I think the same reference has also been picked up by the ex Monty
> >Python crew in the episode of Ripping Yarns titled 'Across the Andes
> >by Frog'.
> >--
> >Clare
> >************************************************
> >Clare O'Farrell
> >email: panopticon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >website: http://www.foucault.qut.edu.au
> >************************************************
>
>Dr. Nathan Widder
>Lecturer in Political Theory
>University of Exeter
>Exeter EX4 4RJ
>United Kingdom
>Web page: http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/politics/staff/widder/
>Genealogies of Difference: http://www.press.uillinois.edu/s02/widder.html
>MA in Critical Global Studies:
>http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/school/ma/global.php
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp