Nathaniel
I would like to know your thoughts on The Order of Things? How has it helped
you?
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Nathaniel Roberts <npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks again, Kevin, this is great. Both your comments as well as the
> references, that is.
>
> The "Maurice Florence" piece was exactly the one I was thinking of,
> although
> I couldn't recall the reference, in which F. describes his project as an
> extension of the Kantian investigation of the conditions of possibility of
> knowledge into an historical dimension and as constituted by power. On the
> other hand, I'm not at all sure whether I've ever read the sections of EW
> vol. 1 you refer to (i.e. pp. 199ff), so this is very useful.
>
> N
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > > Do the 1980s presentations tend more in the direction of his Jan 25th
> > > comments, or is it more about examining the conditions of knowledge?
> > > (Although perhaps these are not two different directions after all!)
> Are
> > > there any particular pieces from the 80s that you'd recommend above
> > > others?
> >
> > I think that these two point actually do move in the same direction.
> >
> > Having quickly re-read the lecture in question, I would say that there is
> > an interesting continuity between OT and what Foucault does here. Simply
> > put, it all revolves around the question concerning the formation of
> subject
> > and objects which are then given to knowledge (connaissance) (cf. AK:
> 15n2).
> > The difference is that in OT, Foucault thinks about this in terms of
> > discursive formations, whereas in STP, he think of this in term of power:
> >
> > 'A whole series of objects were made visible for possible forms of
> > knowledge on the basis of the constitution of the population as the
> > correlate of techniques of power. In turn, because these forms of
> knowledge
> > constantly carve out new objects, the population could be formed,
> continue,
> > and remain as the privileged correlate of modern mechanisms of power.
> Hence
> > the theme of man, and the "human sciences" that analyze him as a living
> > being, working individual, and speaking subject, should be understood on
> the
> > basis of the emergence of population as the correlate of power and the
> > object of knowledge' (STP: 79).
> >
> > Thus wheras in OT Foucault was concerned with the formation of the
> > speaking, labouring, and living subject, in STP, he was concerned with
> the
> > emergence of population as the 'subject-object' (77) which gave rise to
> or
> > became the 'operator' for the 'the transition from natural history to
> > biology, from the analysis of wealth to political economy, and from
> general
> > grammar to
> > historical philology' (78; 85n37).
> >
> > As it say in a endnote to the ninth lecture from the 1976 course, in
> which
> > Foucault presented another, very brief, re-reading of OT: 'This is
> obviously
> > a reworking and genealogical reformulation of the field of knowledge and
> > forms of discursivity that Foucault discussed in "archaeological" terms
> in
> > Les Mots at les choses' (SMBD: 190, 213n1).
> >
> > Perhaps the best presentation that addresses this from the 80's is
> > 'Foucault' by Maurice Florence (a pseudonym) in EW2: 459-463; but see
> also,
> > EW1: 199ff, amongst others.
> >
> > > Also, I seem to recall that there have been lots of complaints about
> the
> > > English translation of the Trombadori interview.
> >
> > As far as I know, the complaints are directed towards the semiotext
> version
> > of this. I don't know whether the version in EW3 has been radically
> revised,
> > so cannot comment upon the quality of the translation.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel Roberts
> Adjunct Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> Columbia University
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
--
Chetan Vemuri
West Des Moines, IA
aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
(515)-418-2771
"You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
world"
I would like to know your thoughts on The Order of Things? How has it helped
you?
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Nathaniel Roberts <npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks again, Kevin, this is great. Both your comments as well as the
> references, that is.
>
> The "Maurice Florence" piece was exactly the one I was thinking of,
> although
> I couldn't recall the reference, in which F. describes his project as an
> extension of the Kantian investigation of the conditions of possibility of
> knowledge into an historical dimension and as constituted by power. On the
> other hand, I'm not at all sure whether I've ever read the sections of EW
> vol. 1 you refer to (i.e. pp. 199ff), so this is very useful.
>
> N
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > > Do the 1980s presentations tend more in the direction of his Jan 25th
> > > comments, or is it more about examining the conditions of knowledge?
> > > (Although perhaps these are not two different directions after all!)
> Are
> > > there any particular pieces from the 80s that you'd recommend above
> > > others?
> >
> > I think that these two point actually do move in the same direction.
> >
> > Having quickly re-read the lecture in question, I would say that there is
> > an interesting continuity between OT and what Foucault does here. Simply
> > put, it all revolves around the question concerning the formation of
> subject
> > and objects which are then given to knowledge (connaissance) (cf. AK:
> 15n2).
> > The difference is that in OT, Foucault thinks about this in terms of
> > discursive formations, whereas in STP, he think of this in term of power:
> >
> > 'A whole series of objects were made visible for possible forms of
> > knowledge on the basis of the constitution of the population as the
> > correlate of techniques of power. In turn, because these forms of
> knowledge
> > constantly carve out new objects, the population could be formed,
> continue,
> > and remain as the privileged correlate of modern mechanisms of power.
> Hence
> > the theme of man, and the "human sciences" that analyze him as a living
> > being, working individual, and speaking subject, should be understood on
> the
> > basis of the emergence of population as the correlate of power and the
> > object of knowledge' (STP: 79).
> >
> > Thus wheras in OT Foucault was concerned with the formation of the
> > speaking, labouring, and living subject, in STP, he was concerned with
> the
> > emergence of population as the 'subject-object' (77) which gave rise to
> or
> > became the 'operator' for the 'the transition from natural history to
> > biology, from the analysis of wealth to political economy, and from
> general
> > grammar to
> > historical philology' (78; 85n37).
> >
> > As it say in a endnote to the ninth lecture from the 1976 course, in
> which
> > Foucault presented another, very brief, re-reading of OT: 'This is
> obviously
> > a reworking and genealogical reformulation of the field of knowledge and
> > forms of discursivity that Foucault discussed in "archaeological" terms
> in
> > Les Mots at les choses' (SMBD: 190, 213n1).
> >
> > Perhaps the best presentation that addresses this from the 80's is
> > 'Foucault' by Maurice Florence (a pseudonym) in EW2: 459-463; but see
> also,
> > EW1: 199ff, amongst others.
> >
> > > Also, I seem to recall that there have been lots of complaints about
> the
> > > English translation of the Trombadori interview.
> >
> > As far as I know, the complaints are directed towards the semiotext
> version
> > of this. I don't know whether the version in EW3 has been radically
> revised,
> > so cannot comment upon the quality of the translation.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel Roberts
> Adjunct Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> Columbia University
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
--
Chetan Vemuri
West Des Moines, IA
aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
(515)-418-2771
"You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
world"