Thanks Kevin. I actually meant to ask, in my previous post, when the
Trombadori interview took place.
I'd never been that interested in all the debates over periodizing F's work
(is there a basic unity? does "genealogy" supersede "archeology"? etc.) and
as a result never spent too much time thinking about F's own later-day
thoughts on the matter. But since reading the 1977-8 lectures, the question
of "man" and its relation to F's later work (esp. on gov'tality) taken on a
new significance for me. I recall some places where he characterizes his
whole project as an extension of Kant's question of the possibility of
knowledge into an historical field, and one constituted by power. But the
Jan. 25th remarks seem to be getting at something else entirely.
(Not to say that F's own retrospective reflections at any given moment on
his earlier work and its relation to later writings need necessarily be
taken a definitive, but they'd probably be a damn good place to start...)
Do the 1980s presentations tend more in the direction of his Jan 25th
comments, or is it more about examining the conditions of knowledge?
(Although perhaps these are not two different directions after all!) Are
there any particular pieces from the 80s that you'd recommend above others?
Also, I seem to recall that there have been lots of complaints about the
English translation of the Trombadori interview. (Or am I confusing this
with an published Italian translation of a samizdat transcript of one of his
College de France lectures, that was subsequently translated back into
French as well as into English? It's all starting to seem quite hazy to me
at the moment...) And if so, do you happen to know what the substance of
the complaints were, and whether alternate translations of the Trombadori
interview are available?
Nate
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> interestingly enough, the Trombadori interview took place at the end of
> 1978, which is to say, the same year as the 'Security, Territory, and
> Population' lectures at the Collège de France.
>
> As with all such comments by Foucault, what he says vis., OT needs to be
> read with care, with particular emphasis placed on the word "passion."
>
> In the 1980s, Foucault gave numerous presentations of his overall project,
> and nearly all of them contain reference to OT. Reading these certainly
> seems to support Nathaniel's claim that, post Discipline and Punish,
> Foucault "came to appreciate his earlier work in new ways."
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 12:50:31 -0400
> > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] The Order of Things - relevance for today
> >
> > Yes, the reference Kevin has given is precisely the ones I was referring
> > to:
> > The Jan. 25th lecture ("lecture 3").
> >
> > Foucault's excursus on the O.T. begins on p. 76 of the Palgrave edition.
> > He
> > doesn't specifically refer to the Order of Things by name, but the
> > references would have been clear enough to anyone familiar with that text
> > (
> > = virtually everyone in the lecture hall, I suspect).
> >
> > But please note: what F. says about O.T. will be pretty impossible to
> > grasp
> > without reading from the beginning of that year's lecture series (i.e.
> > from
> > Jan. 11, 1977).
> >
> > About Kevin's point that Foucault came to see O.T. as marginal: this may
> > be
> > so. But the impression I got from the Jan 25th lecture, was that at that
> > time he himself was coming to appreciate his earlier work in a new way.
> > In
> > any case, his remarks are highly schematic, and are clearly not meant as
> > his
> > final working-out of the subject. And if he had not tragically died so
> > soon, he would surely have returned to this question.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The Order of Things revisited...
> >>
> >> See the lecture from 25th January 1978: 55-86 - attention should be
> >> given
> >> to Graham Burchell endnotes to the lecture.
> >>
> >> See also the lecture from 8th March 1978, and to 250n17, 18.
> >>
> >> Reference to this is also made by Michel Senellart in his 'Course
> >> Context:' 379.
> >>
> >> All references are to the English translation of 'Security, Territory,
> >> and
> >> Population' published by Palgrave.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Kevin.
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: r.thomas-pellicer@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Sent: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 11:54:51 +0100
> >>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [Foucault-L] The Order of Things - relevance for today
> >>>
> >>> Nathaniel,
> >>>
> >>> Could you please double cheque on this reference, and let us know:
> >>> Oh, one more thing, are people aware that Foucault revisits and
> >>> revises (or rather, re-situates) his Order of Things argument about
> >>> "man" in one of the lectures in his 1977-8 course, published under the
> >>> title Security, Territory, Population? Check it out.
> >>>
> >>> If you mean a 5-page essay, I haven't located any ref to Man.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Ruth
> >>>
> >>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >>> *
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> "After Nietzsche's devastating criticism of those 'last men' who
> >>> 'invented happiness,' I may leave aside altogether the naïve optimism
> >>> in
> >>> which science -that is, the technique of mastering life which rests
> >>> upon
> >>> science- has been celebrated as the way to happiness. Who believes in
> >>> this? -aside from a few big children in university chairs or editorial
> >>> offices." -Max Weber
> >>>
> >>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >>> *
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on
> >> your desktop!
> >> Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nathaniel Roberts
> > Adjunct Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > Columbia University
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Nathaniel Roberts
Adjunct Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
Columbia University
Trombadori interview took place.
I'd never been that interested in all the debates over periodizing F's work
(is there a basic unity? does "genealogy" supersede "archeology"? etc.) and
as a result never spent too much time thinking about F's own later-day
thoughts on the matter. But since reading the 1977-8 lectures, the question
of "man" and its relation to F's later work (esp. on gov'tality) taken on a
new significance for me. I recall some places where he characterizes his
whole project as an extension of Kant's question of the possibility of
knowledge into an historical field, and one constituted by power. But the
Jan. 25th remarks seem to be getting at something else entirely.
(Not to say that F's own retrospective reflections at any given moment on
his earlier work and its relation to later writings need necessarily be
taken a definitive, but they'd probably be a damn good place to start...)
Do the 1980s presentations tend more in the direction of his Jan 25th
comments, or is it more about examining the conditions of knowledge?
(Although perhaps these are not two different directions after all!) Are
there any particular pieces from the 80s that you'd recommend above others?
Also, I seem to recall that there have been lots of complaints about the
English translation of the Trombadori interview. (Or am I confusing this
with an published Italian translation of a samizdat transcript of one of his
College de France lectures, that was subsequently translated back into
French as well as into English? It's all starting to seem quite hazy to me
at the moment...) And if so, do you happen to know what the substance of
the complaints were, and whether alternate translations of the Trombadori
interview are available?
Nate
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> interestingly enough, the Trombadori interview took place at the end of
> 1978, which is to say, the same year as the 'Security, Territory, and
> Population' lectures at the Collège de France.
>
> As with all such comments by Foucault, what he says vis., OT needs to be
> read with care, with particular emphasis placed on the word "passion."
>
> In the 1980s, Foucault gave numerous presentations of his overall project,
> and nearly all of them contain reference to OT. Reading these certainly
> seems to support Nathaniel's claim that, post Discipline and Punish,
> Foucault "came to appreciate his earlier work in new ways."
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 12:50:31 -0400
> > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] The Order of Things - relevance for today
> >
> > Yes, the reference Kevin has given is precisely the ones I was referring
> > to:
> > The Jan. 25th lecture ("lecture 3").
> >
> > Foucault's excursus on the O.T. begins on p. 76 of the Palgrave edition.
> > He
> > doesn't specifically refer to the Order of Things by name, but the
> > references would have been clear enough to anyone familiar with that text
> > (
> > = virtually everyone in the lecture hall, I suspect).
> >
> > But please note: what F. says about O.T. will be pretty impossible to
> > grasp
> > without reading from the beginning of that year's lecture series (i.e.
> > from
> > Jan. 11, 1977).
> >
> > About Kevin's point that Foucault came to see O.T. as marginal: this may
> > be
> > so. But the impression I got from the Jan 25th lecture, was that at that
> > time he himself was coming to appreciate his earlier work in a new way.
> > In
> > any case, his remarks are highly schematic, and are clearly not meant as
> > his
> > final working-out of the subject. And if he had not tragically died so
> > soon, he would surely have returned to this question.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The Order of Things revisited...
> >>
> >> See the lecture from 25th January 1978: 55-86 - attention should be
> >> given
> >> to Graham Burchell endnotes to the lecture.
> >>
> >> See also the lecture from 8th March 1978, and to 250n17, 18.
> >>
> >> Reference to this is also made by Michel Senellart in his 'Course
> >> Context:' 379.
> >>
> >> All references are to the English translation of 'Security, Territory,
> >> and
> >> Population' published by Palgrave.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Kevin.
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: r.thomas-pellicer@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Sent: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 11:54:51 +0100
> >>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [Foucault-L] The Order of Things - relevance for today
> >>>
> >>> Nathaniel,
> >>>
> >>> Could you please double cheque on this reference, and let us know:
> >>> Oh, one more thing, are people aware that Foucault revisits and
> >>> revises (or rather, re-situates) his Order of Things argument about
> >>> "man" in one of the lectures in his 1977-8 course, published under the
> >>> title Security, Territory, Population? Check it out.
> >>>
> >>> If you mean a 5-page essay, I haven't located any ref to Man.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Ruth
> >>>
> >>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >>> *
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> "After Nietzsche's devastating criticism of those 'last men' who
> >>> 'invented happiness,' I may leave aside altogether the naïve optimism
> >>> in
> >>> which science -that is, the technique of mastering life which rests
> >>> upon
> >>> science- has been celebrated as the way to happiness. Who believes in
> >>> this? -aside from a few big children in university chairs or editorial
> >>> offices." -Max Weber
> >>>
> >>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >>> *
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on
> >> your desktop!
> >> Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nathaniel Roberts
> > Adjunct Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > Columbia University
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Nathaniel Roberts
Adjunct Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
Columbia University