its funny
i've never found a perfect, birds-eye secondary commentator on Foucault.
Or perfect is a point of view.
Each has his or her own approach based on their specialty or theoretical
paradigm or even axe to grind.
but this is not a revolutionary idea as it was probably obvious to begin
with.
I never thought about that aspect of Veyne's misreading of Foucault's
pastoralism.
I usually have nothing but praise for his understanding of Foucault's work
on ethics and the care of the self.
On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Nathaniel Roberts <npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> This is interesting. Because I seem to remember that the way Veyne
> describes "pastoral" power in this essay is totally at odds with Foucault's
> own usage, as developed in the 1977-8 lectures ('Security, Territory,
> Population') --viz. Veyne ascribes a pastoral logic to the practices of
> pre-Christian Roman emperors, whereas for Foucault pastoralism was
> precisely
> absent in the Greek and Roman contexts (he makes a big deal out of this in
> the 1977-8 lectures).
>
> So perhaps Veyne published the essay earlier in 1978, before having a
> chance
> to take account of the latest developments in F's conceptual terminology.
>
> Apart from describing pastoral power in terms totally incompatible with
> F's,
> however, I've always thought Veyne's essay was a really great one,
> especially for helping students to grasp the specificity and brilliance of
> F's method. And yet I am often hesitant to assign it on account of the
> confusion that could result with respect to their divergent usage of this
> important term. This difficulty can of course be overcome if one takes the
> time to explain this one point of difficulty to students in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Nate
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi Fouad, and thanks for the information.
> >
> > Actually, looking through the essay again, Veyne references both "Society
> > Must be Defended" and "The History of Sexuality" which make it clear that
> > the text could not have been written in 1971.
> >
> > Thanks once again,
> > Kevin.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 04:54:50 -0500
> > > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Foucault Revolutionises History
> > >
> > >
> > > Kevin,
> > >
> > > The discrepancy in dates may be related to the fact that Veyne's book:
> > > Comment on écrit l'histoire: Essai d'épistémologie was initially
> > > published in 1971 and then republished a few times in new editions that
> > > included "Foucault révolutionne l'histoire." Naissance de la
> biopolitique
> > > refers to a 1979 edition of Comment on écrit l'histoire published in
> > > Seuil's "Points - histoire" series, where "Foucault révolutionne
> > > l'histoire" is cited on pages 227-230 (see endnote 4 of the lesson of
> > > January 10, 1979, p. 26). However, in the author's list of publications
> > > ("Du même auteur") at the end of the latest book of Veyne on
> > > Foucault--Foucault: sa pensée, sa personne, Albin Michel, 2008, only
> two
> > > editions are mentioned: the 1971 orginal publication and the 1996
> edition
> > > in Seuil's "Points - histoire" series.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, in his new book menioned above, Veyne refers to a 1978
> date
> > > for his essay on Foucault ("Foucault révolutionne l'histoire"). See
> page
> > > 28, footnote 2.
> > >
> > > I do not know if this helps.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Fouad Kalouche
> > >
> > >> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:43:10 -0800> From: kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
> To:
> > >> foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [Foucault-L] Foucault
> Revolutionises
> > >> History> > Can anybody tell me when this essay by Paul Veyne was
> > >> originally written?> > In a text I'm reading it states that it was
> > >> written in 1978. In the text itself it also says 1978. But on the
> > >> copyright page in A. I. Davidson's edited collection (Foucault and his
> > >> Interlocutors), it states that it was written in 1971.> > Regards,>
> > >> Kevin.> > _______________________________________________> Foucault-L
> > >> mailing list
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
> > >
> >
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Receive Notifications of Incoming Messages
> > Easily monitor multiple email accounts & access them with a click.
> > Visit http://www.inbox.com/notifier and check it out!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel Roberts
> Adjunct Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> Columbia University
> -and-
> Part Time Faculty Member
> Department of Anthropology
> The New School for Social Research
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Chetan Vemuri
West Des Moines, IA
aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
(515)-418-2771
"You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
world"
i've never found a perfect, birds-eye secondary commentator on Foucault.
Or perfect is a point of view.
Each has his or her own approach based on their specialty or theoretical
paradigm or even axe to grind.
but this is not a revolutionary idea as it was probably obvious to begin
with.
I never thought about that aspect of Veyne's misreading of Foucault's
pastoralism.
I usually have nothing but praise for his understanding of Foucault's work
on ethics and the care of the self.
On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Nathaniel Roberts <npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> This is interesting. Because I seem to remember that the way Veyne
> describes "pastoral" power in this essay is totally at odds with Foucault's
> own usage, as developed in the 1977-8 lectures ('Security, Territory,
> Population') --viz. Veyne ascribes a pastoral logic to the practices of
> pre-Christian Roman emperors, whereas for Foucault pastoralism was
> precisely
> absent in the Greek and Roman contexts (he makes a big deal out of this in
> the 1977-8 lectures).
>
> So perhaps Veyne published the essay earlier in 1978, before having a
> chance
> to take account of the latest developments in F's conceptual terminology.
>
> Apart from describing pastoral power in terms totally incompatible with
> F's,
> however, I've always thought Veyne's essay was a really great one,
> especially for helping students to grasp the specificity and brilliance of
> F's method. And yet I am often hesitant to assign it on account of the
> confusion that could result with respect to their divergent usage of this
> important term. This difficulty can of course be overcome if one takes the
> time to explain this one point of difficulty to students in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Nate
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi Fouad, and thanks for the information.
> >
> > Actually, looking through the essay again, Veyne references both "Society
> > Must be Defended" and "The History of Sexuality" which make it clear that
> > the text could not have been written in 1971.
> >
> > Thanks once again,
> > Kevin.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 04:54:50 -0500
> > > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Foucault Revolutionises History
> > >
> > >
> > > Kevin,
> > >
> > > The discrepancy in dates may be related to the fact that Veyne's book:
> > > Comment on écrit l'histoire: Essai d'épistémologie was initially
> > > published in 1971 and then republished a few times in new editions that
> > > included "Foucault révolutionne l'histoire." Naissance de la
> biopolitique
> > > refers to a 1979 edition of Comment on écrit l'histoire published in
> > > Seuil's "Points - histoire" series, where "Foucault révolutionne
> > > l'histoire" is cited on pages 227-230 (see endnote 4 of the lesson of
> > > January 10, 1979, p. 26). However, in the author's list of publications
> > > ("Du même auteur") at the end of the latest book of Veyne on
> > > Foucault--Foucault: sa pensée, sa personne, Albin Michel, 2008, only
> two
> > > editions are mentioned: the 1971 orginal publication and the 1996
> edition
> > > in Seuil's "Points - histoire" series.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, in his new book menioned above, Veyne refers to a 1978
> date
> > > for his essay on Foucault ("Foucault révolutionne l'histoire"). See
> page
> > > 28, footnote 2.
> > >
> > > I do not know if this helps.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Fouad Kalouche
> > >
> > >> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:43:10 -0800> From: kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
> To:
> > >> foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [Foucault-L] Foucault
> Revolutionises
> > >> History> > Can anybody tell me when this essay by Paul Veyne was
> > >> originally written?> > In a text I'm reading it states that it was
> > >> written in 1978. In the text itself it also says 1978. But on the
> > >> copyright page in A. I. Davidson's edited collection (Foucault and his
> > >> Interlocutors), it states that it was written in 1971.> > Regards,>
> > >> Kevin.> > _______________________________________________> Foucault-L
> > >> mailing list
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
> > >
> >
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Receive Notifications of Incoming Messages
> > Easily monitor multiple email accounts & access them with a click.
> > Visit http://www.inbox.com/notifier and check it out!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel Roberts
> Adjunct Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> Columbia University
> -and-
> Part Time Faculty Member
> Department of Anthropology
> The New School for Social Research
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Chetan Vemuri
West Des Moines, IA
aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
(515)-418-2771
"You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
world"