The delta structure of philosophy
polarizing average logics
-structuralism
-semiotics
in semiotics its apparant not all truth can be bent in the image in its own
actually semiotics establish freedom for the image (i don't know what all the abstractions about yet actually"
but that a faery or vampire has certain main items, is quite clear
that it has societal representation and identification is quite clear
that it has strains of growth is also quite clear
structuralism and semiotics can be used to asses the basic canons in both, expression, beauty, technique, philosophy, technology, conceptualism
conceptualism currently would be split into six main ideas
romantic endeavors as opening window panes with fireworks
technical ideas
trauma ideas, fruedian ideas (including sensory isolation)
amoebe forms or form experiments
society criticism and black humour
the idea for a modern conceptual artwork not to be decorative is not clear
in the academy of modern art they call a rik poot horse "something we don't do anymore"
but, as a fact, (me being a decorative romantic is easy to see but) rik poot is actually conceptual, he represents a horse but people actually tricked themselves in the trap to say he is classic and representative
the debate is clearly still not actually subjectified
they still ALL try to win
while the idea would be to define base lines and work for one self
this game to win the kantian game is quite useless at this point
quanta -little i know about pulsing of light but they seem to establish in underground measuring
relativity -to equate einstein to schopenhauer basic evolution diagram would be interesting
schopenhauer -Nietzsche
-Masoch
neoclassicism -hitler neo classisicism
-art deco
romanticism -symbolism decadentism
-art nouveau
decorative to sheer technique impression
very clear to resistence of decorative art to -impressionism
-expressionism
late elementary spiritual symbolism -elvin faery etc in cartoons
neo academic may be called the victorian and 19 th century more adult movies
ridicule, dangerous liaisons, etc
the variations in art neoclassical -rubens medusa miltons paradise lost
rococo strain -salt dish of cellini
art nouveau strain -
to communicate the main strains in culture may be perceived
and individual relations of artworks to the main strains
this provides an "oak" or anchor to visual expression and even the notion of beauty
this allows communication, developing new patterns or more consensus on patterns
commercial notions can be destroyed and industry can change over to serious products
employment can resume
the past 200 years of course is a giant chaos of the main strains
the nineteenth century you can see the main strains in neoclassicism romanticism and breaking up, gothicism kitsh ruin ruin ideas as an art in neoclassicism
dore landscape design in romantic
but mainly neoclassicism in ideolog and romantic in ideology is the poetic rebellion versus the state protocollairy and suspision for the main childlike crowds -who at this point have wittingly and ironicly proven a little bit child is in them
dispite the word crisis perpetually these words in strains and the strains themselves are secure somehow, words can keep them apart, strains within all these lines can be easily kept visible
geographical you can put it on a map
but for actual arranging and anchoring ones perception to ideology and reality of course a few lines and on a time line is interesting
not to say in time it is still important
however it is important as genetics of thought and reality crafting and visual knowledge
the spiritual artisan and elvin and faery soft spirituality need to be arranged properly with the technologic conceptual idea systems
some technologic extreme things may be built
however it would be generally concidered a old neoclassical hinge systems and casted iron etc architecture ideas would need to be used within new concideration of "feline central"
meaning, aesthetic, spiritual, allegoric to savory, allegoric of living life itself over war and function of living, over product
the power of markets also in words like
"bioorganic food"
food is food, the hysteria for the new has carried people away, the locking of the senses in Immanuel kant had everyone flee to the exit of technology and new and suffice of the individual to be the solution for the dialectic problem as marx-hegel proponed
"product"
same here, even if the subject can decide on the choice here in, an actual recommendation of quality and savory primary for a person is not given, the end result is desolution, desperation, hysteria
i recommend the world a authentic reprints of renoir and the goncourts, naturalists, decadents
even if highly bloated, as far as naturalists are concerned, or highly disdained of the crowds, actually, the sensory description, also in balzac etc
is the only way people will free themselves from sensory deficit
-on my site www.ayrisstar.com- will be a focus on the romantic-symbolist-decadent-surrealist-metal-gothic-modern comedy revolt
as a focus on the naturalist, symbolist, decadent, romantic realist, sensory ideology and depiction, art nouveau of course with tolkien, description of natural scene etc
king arthur, description of ethical ideas
etc
if anyone like to establish full diagrams of polarizing philosophy let me know
also in this
-mosquito ideas in spacetravel of industry
-nasa with various technocratic bureacratic ideas
-fiction with massive design robots, with the robots of aliens you could build a star wars spaceship
cultural vision assymetry can be healed with this
if you get ten burans and a few space shuttles with the brown main tank in space and just have the tank UP in space you could actually weld in space a steampunk ship out of seven or so such tanks, with giant steampunk fortified windows etc (such designs are today in cartoons and this and that)
the idea to craft a drawing of artisan center to a technology fractal seems the new societal structure
the sensory bound of hands, skin, touch, ears, vision, as in synthetsis, or classical life, chariots, gardens, can never be broken
its an essential compartment
even in space one will not be sitting there peddling fitness for eternity
the idea meaninglesness is the misinterpretation of Immanuel kant by definition
fucking it up is to present the solution after the facts
it can be seen, something is sure in it
Kant basically used the entire structure as a test for people to see if they could ever establish common principles in art
it created thousands of nuclear style splits
and you can still see the main pattern
very interesting
kant to say "keep thinking" or "think for yourself" also goes for the subject idea we presume
of which is apart of kapitalism as subject both something that ALWAYS existed
the friction it creates or an abstract friction without actual relation see most people to rise or lower without knowing why exactly
this is all a nice system and hypothesis but it establishes great results and opportunities.
if anyone likes to join the facebook page on this and michel foucault stuff
i do concider faucoult the last actual philosopher in mainstream that had some reserve to the whole modern idea
slavoi zizek and naom chomsky i don't actually know, i think they are getting a little bit lost in it today.
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "foucault-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <foucault-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:17 PM
Subject: Foucault-L Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2
Send Foucault-L mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Foucault-L digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Online versions (Teresa Mayne)
2. Re: Online versions (Tiffany P.)
3. Re: Online versions (Michael Reno)
4. Re: Online versions (Michael Reno)
5. Re: Online versions (Teresa Mayne)
6. Re: Online versions (Aragorn Eloff)
7. Re: Online versions (Amitranjan Basu)
8. Re: Online versions (subject closed) (Tiffany P.)
9. Re: Online versions ? General Comment (Timothy O'Leary)
10. Re: Online versions ? General Comment (Tiffany P.)
11. Re: Online versions ? General Comment (Allen Miller)
12. Re: Online versions ? General Comment (alasdair mcmillan)
13. Marx and Foucault (Chathan Vemuri)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:35:32 -0500
From: Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<CAJ4cgmJUQPu9ygbDWdAGSy0WW1VEkuBYgZdrtZpx2pkAjf=+1g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
AAAARG.org
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Tiffany P. <princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> What database do you use to download your books ? The only online database I know is Gigapedia, but they don't have all the books in the world.
> Sadly, I live in France, and that means that the only access I can get to english books or articles is the internet.
> I'm currently working in the field of the history of sexuality.
> Can anyone help me ? I'm not only thinking about free databases.
> Thanks a lot,
> Best,
> Tiffany P.
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:45:06 +0100
From: "Tiffany P." <princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
To: Michel Foucault <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W83F7D590BFF6D8D6AA291A28C0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi everyone,
Some people advise aaaarg.org, aaaaarg.org, or a.aaaarg.orgI've tried all of them, with even more "a" ! ^^But all of them tell me that aaaarg.org "doesn't exist" or "is down". Does anyone have tried to reach it in the past few days ? Any advice ?
Thanx
Tiffany
> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:35:32 -0500
> From: teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
>
> AAAARG.org
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Tiffany P. <princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > What database do you use to download your books ? The only online database I know is Gigapedia, but they don't have all the books in the world.
> > Sadly, I live in France, and that means that the only access I can get to english books or articles is the internet.
> > I'm currently working in the field of the history of sexuality.
> > Can anyone help me ? I'm not only thinking about free databases.
> > Thanks a lot,
> > Best,
> > Tiffany P.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:52:01 -0500
From: Michael Reno <renomich@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <4F25CD91.3010108@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Just went to http://aaaaarg.org and it works. It's 5 'a's.
On 1/29/2012 5:45 PM, Tiffany P. wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
> Some people advise aaaarg.org, aaaaarg.org, or a.aaaarg.orgI've tried all of them, with even more "a" ! ^^But all of them tell me that aaaarg.org "doesn't exist" or "is down". Does anyone have tried to reach it in the past few days ? Any advice ?
> Thanx
> Tiffany
>
>> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:35:32 -0500
>> From: teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
>>
>> AAAARG.org
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Tiffany P.<princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> What database do you use to download your books ? The only online database I know is Gigapedia, but they don't have all the books in the world.
>>> Sadly, I live in France, and that means that the only access I can get to english books or articles is the internet.
>>> I'm currently working in the field of the history of sexuality.
>>> Can anyone help me ? I'm not only thinking about free databases.
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>> Best,
>>> Tiffany P.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:53:51 -0500
From: Michael Reno <renomich@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <4F25CDFF.7010500@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Or try the register page directly: http://aaaaarg.org/register
On 1/29/2012 5:45 PM, Tiffany P. wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
> Some people advise aaaarg.org, aaaaarg.org, or a.aaaarg.orgI've tried all of them, with even more "a" ! ^^But all of them tell me that aaaarg.org "doesn't exist" or "is down". Does anyone have tried to reach it in the past few days ? Any advice ?
> Thanx
> Tiffany
>
>> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:35:32 -0500
>> From: teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
>>
>> AAAARG.org
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Tiffany P.<princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> What database do you use to download your books ? The only online database I know is Gigapedia, but they don't have all the books in the world.
>>> Sadly, I live in France, and that means that the only access I can get to english books or articles is the internet.
>>> I'm currently working in the field of the history of sexuality.
>>> Can anyone help me ? I'm not only thinking about free databases.
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>> Best,
>>> Tiffany P.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:03:32 -0500
From: Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<CAJ4cgmL0qJZmARG0FXxusvYdJ-raPm7wqHb=pB7MPEjyFn08xg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
5 a's is right - sorry for the confusion!
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Michael Reno <renomich@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Or try the register page directly: http://aaaaarg.org/register
>
>
> On 1/29/2012 5:45 PM, Tiffany P. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>> Some people advise aaaarg.org, aaaaarg.org, or a.aaaarg.orgI've tried all of them, with even more "a" ! ^^But all of them tell me that aaaarg.org "doesn't exist" or "is down". Does anyone have tried to reach it in the past few days ? Any advice ?
>> Thanx
>> Tiffany
>>
>>> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:35:32 -0500
>>> From: teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
>>>
>>> AAAARG.org
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Tiffany P.<princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx> ?wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> What database do you use to download your books ? The only online database I know is Gigapedia, but they don't have all the books in the world.
>>>> Sadly, I live in France, and that means that the only access I can get to english books or articles is the internet.
>>>> I'm currently working in the field of the history of sexuality.
>>>> Can anyone help me ? I'm not only thinking about free databases.
>>>> Thanks a lot,
>>>> Best,
>>>> Tiffany P.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:11:24 +0200
From: Aragorn Eloff <aragorn@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4F265EBC.60102@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It's definitely up: http://aaaaarg.org/login
On 2012/01/30 12:45 AM, Tiffany P. wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
> Some people advise aaaarg.org, aaaaarg.org, or a.aaaarg.orgI've tried all of them, with even more "a" ! ^^But all of them tell me that aaaarg.org "doesn't exist" or "is down". Does anyone have tried to reach it in the past few days ? Any advice ?
> Thanx
> Tiffany
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:24:55 -0800
From: Amitranjan Basu <amitrbasu53@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<CAGQXmQJ7_N_q6DQR4=4NjR0n_EbGaMwRWjeae39OpBdw29LLdQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
for free books download you can also try www.scribd.com but you also have
to upload something in exchange
On 30 January 2012 01:11, Aragorn Eloff <aragorn@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> It's definitely up: http://aaaaarg.org/login
>
>
> On 2012/01/30 12:45 AM, Tiffany P. wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > Some people advise aaaarg.org, aaaaarg.org, or a.aaaarg.orgI've tried
> all of them, with even more "a" ! ^^But all of them tell me that
> aaaarg.org "doesn't exist" or "is down". Does anyone have tried to reach
> it in the past few days ? Any advice ?
> > Thanx
> > Tiffany
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:31:04 +0100
From: "Tiffany P." <princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions (subject closed)
To: Michel Foucault <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W3A648AD776617DC8B5CA3A28D0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have some problems with aaaaarg.org, for which I registered, but from which I didn't received a confirmation or a password yet. When you login with false informations, they tell you the website has been taken down. That's why. I'll be waiting patiently. Anyway, thanks for helping.
Tiffany
> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:24:55 -0800
> From: amitrbasu53@xxxxxxxxx
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions
>
> for free books download you can also try www.scribd.com but you also have
> to upload something in exchange
>
> On 30 January 2012 01:11, Aragorn Eloff <aragorn@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > It's definitely up: http://aaaaarg.org/login
> >
> >
> > On 2012/01/30 12:45 AM, Tiffany P. wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > Some people advise aaaarg.org, aaaaarg.org, or a.aaaarg.orgI've tried
> > all of them, with even more "a" ! ^^But all of them tell me that
> > aaaarg.org "doesn't exist" or "is down". Does anyone have tried to reach
> > it in the past few days ? Any advice ?
> > > Thanx
> > > Tiffany
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:14:22 +0800
From: "Timothy O'Leary" <autrement@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions ? General Comment
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<CAGWTUeGm=+eUTyb4V3YriOr_voj2MyQdsaOP2sC3MV-1tFKp9Q@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Dear Foucault-philes,
Following this discussion of where to download Foucault-related books, and
in light of the recent sudden demise of Megaupload, I wonder if anybody
has considered what Foucault himself would say about the (illegal) free
downloading of published books?
We all know the interview in which he says he'd like to see a year of
publishing anonymously - but I don't recall the year of free books!
I ask because I have found my own books on some of these sites and I have
to admit that at the time I told my publisher about it. Informing on the
free flow of information is shameful isn't it. Or is it? The problem is
that if my publisher didn't get paid for their books then they wouldn't be
offering contracts to me (or anybody else), which would cause serious
problems for us all - esp when it comes to getting jobs, tenure, etc ? not
to mention putting citations in your bibliography.
I understand that access to philosophy shouldn't be dependent on financial
means, esp for graduate students. But isn't that what libraries are for?
But, of course, it's so much more convenient to have a searchable pdf file,
isn't it? I actually illegally downloaded my own books just so I could have
a complete pdf version - the publisher didn't give me one.
So I'm not necessarily condemning the practice - perhaps it's just the
first move in a major epistemic shift - but I do think it would be
interesting to discuss it from a Foucauldian perspective.
Regards,
Timothy
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:58:30 +0100
From: "Tiffany P." <princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions ? General Comment
To: Michel Foucault <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W57CECDBDB47D8212B97782A28D0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Here responding to Timothy, but also following the general comment initiated by him. (sorry again for my english, still working on it)
The aim of the debate was first to allow me, as a french student, to get access to english e-books, may they be free or not.
Of course it's always thrilling to download the latest version of a 50$ book for free, as a searchable pdf file. (I recall of my first online orgasm : when I found Le foucault ?lectronique, a multi terms searchable file containing almost all of Foucault's books, including Dits et Ecrits. Talking about Foucault's opinion about free e-books (if one may say so), while downloading this treasure I immediately thought I was violating Foucault's own ethics about the concept of oeuvre. All of Foucault's books and articles and talks, within the same file ? With electronic data processing allowed ? Oh gosh, it was almost blasphemy. Anyway, I own a whole drawer overflowing with Foucault's books, which I invariably buy.)
For me and my french collegues, the problem is the very access to english books, may it be in libraries. French libraries aren't known worldwide to be the finest place to work. We also have a translation jet lag problem. In my field, history of sexuality, there are 1980's essential books that aren't translated yet.Furthermore, I live in Lille, and every single book I find to be available in a library is in Paris.
In the end, what choices do I have ?- move back to Paris- buy every single book I have to work on, even if it concerns only one chapter, and find 10 000 euros each month to work on my thesis - download e-books.
What do you think I should do ?
Joking.
Anyway, may internet collaboration live long.
Best,
Tiffany P.
> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:14:22 +0800
> From: autrement@xxxxxxxxx
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions ? General Comment
>
> Dear Foucault-philes,
>
> Following this discussion of where to download Foucault-related books, and
> in light of the recent sudden demise of Megaupload, I wonder if anybody
> has considered what Foucault himself would say about the (illegal) free
> downloading of published books?
>
> We all know the interview in which he says he'd like to see a year of
> publishing anonymously - but I don't recall the year of free books!
>
> I ask because I have found my own books on some of these sites and I have
> to admit that at the time I told my publisher about it. Informing on the
> free flow of information is shameful isn't it. Or is it? The problem is
> that if my publisher didn't get paid for their books then they wouldn't be
> offering contracts to me (or anybody else), which would cause serious
> problems for us all - esp when it comes to getting jobs, tenure, etc ? not
> to mention putting citations in your bibliography.
>
> I understand that access to philosophy shouldn't be dependent on financial
> means, esp for graduate students. But isn't that what libraries are for?
> But, of course, it's so much more convenient to have a searchable pdf file,
> isn't it? I actually illegally downloaded my own books just so I could have
> a complete pdf version - the publisher didn't give me one.
>
> So I'm not necessarily condemning the practice - perhaps it's just the
> first move in a major epistemic shift - but I do think it would be
> interesting to discuss it from a Foucauldian perspective.
>
> Regards,
> Timothy
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:26:25 -0500
From: Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions ? General Comment
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<CAB8Rzy7Ffvra9AcXMZXScjMKmQHOYdn+oH1L2rx2ggXNh7qqZg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
It certainly is true that working in French libraries is not like working
in American university libraries. We tend to take our almost universal
access for granted.
I think Tiffany's good faith effort to use libraries and buy books when
possible is reasonable. It makes publishing economically possible. But
the idea that she should not read books she would otherwise not have access
does not seem to have any benefit other than for those who profit from
restricting information.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Tiffany P. <princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> Here responding to Timothy, but also following the general comment
> initiated by him. (sorry again for my english, still working on it)
>
> The aim of the debate was first to allow me, as a french student, to get
> access to english e-books, may they be free or not.
> Of course it's always thrilling to download the latest version of a 50$
> book for free, as a searchable pdf file. (I recall of my first online
> orgasm : when I found Le foucault ?lectronique, a multi terms searchable
> file containing almost all of Foucault's books, including Dits et Ecrits.
> Talking about Foucault's opinion about free e-books (if one may say so),
> while downloading this treasure I immediately thought I was violating
> Foucault's own ethics about the concept of oeuvre. All of Foucault's books
> and articles and talks, within the same file ? With electronic data
> processing allowed ? Oh gosh, it was almost blasphemy. Anyway, I own a
> whole drawer overflowing with Foucault's books, which I invariably buy.)
> For me and my french collegues, the problem is the very access to english
> books, may it be in libraries. French libraries aren't known worldwide to
> be the finest place to work. We also have a translation jet lag problem. In
> my field, history of sexuality, there are 1980's essential books that
> aren't translated yet.Furthermore, I live in Lille, and every single book I
> find to be available in a library is in Paris.
> In the end, what choices do I have ?- move back to Paris- buy every single
> book I have to work on, even if it concerns only one chapter, and find 10
> 000 euros each month to work on my thesis - download e-books.
> What do you think I should do ?
> Joking.
> Anyway, may internet collaboration live long.
> Best,
> Tiffany P.
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:14:22 +0800
> > From: autrement@xxxxxxxxx
> > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions ? General Comment
> >
> > Dear Foucault-philes,
> >
> > Following this discussion of where to download Foucault-related books,
> and
> > in light of the recent sudden demise of Megaupload, I wonder if anybody
> > has considered what Foucault himself would say about the (illegal) free
> > downloading of published books?
> >
> > We all know the interview in which he says he'd like to see a year of
> > publishing anonymously - but I don't recall the year of free books!
> >
> > I ask because I have found my own books on some of these sites and I have
> > to admit that at the time I told my publisher about it. Informing on the
> > free flow of information is shameful isn't it. Or is it? The problem is
> > that if my publisher didn't get paid for their books then they wouldn't
> be
> > offering contracts to me (or anybody else), which would cause serious
> > problems for us all - esp when it comes to getting jobs, tenure, etc ?
> not
> > to mention putting citations in your bibliography.
> >
> > I understand that access to philosophy shouldn't be dependent on
> financial
> > means, esp for graduate students. But isn't that what libraries are for?
> > But, of course, it's so much more convenient to have a searchable pdf
> file,
> > isn't it? I actually illegally downloaded my own books just so I could
> have
> > a complete pdf version - the publisher didn't give me one.
> >
> > So I'm not necessarily condemning the practice - perhaps it's just the
> > first move in a major epistemic shift - but I do think it would be
> > interesting to discuss it from a Foucauldian perspective.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Timothy
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
--
Paul Allen Miller
Chair, Languages, Literatures, and Cultures
Carolina Distinguished Professor of Classics and Comparative Literature
President, Southern Comparative Literature Association
Department of Languages, Literatures, and Cultures
University of South Carolina
Columbia, SC 29208
803-777-9734
pamiller@xxxxxx
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:35:45 -0500
From: alasdair mcmillan <amcmill@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions ? General Comment
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<CAF-evS1VDL4vaf3MVSJu44Zo=fACZW8hPfiA7uUcn=UZu4O8nA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
The initial suggestion of a discussion along Foucauldian lines of this
question is a great one I think.
Foucault would be the first to remind us that 'copyright' is by no means
some *a priori *natural right of the author - and that rather it is a legal
framework set up in a specific historical moment, more of a discursive
operation which *creates *the very modern notion of author, than an
inherent right of authorship. He says pretty much exactly this in 'What is
an author?' if I recall, that the notion of an author comes into being at
the very same time as authorship is caught up in a highly elaborated system
of rights and property. And then of course this is by no means a 'universal
or constant' feature of writing... claims of the death of the author, &c...
and moreover much of the mainstream discourse about piracy and theft is no
more than an attempt to shoehorn morality and guilt into what should be a
question of legal utility.
So with morality and silly notions of a *natural right *to profit from
authorship *for all eternity* off the table, we can reflect on the actual
utility of copyright law. I think that the Copyright Clause of the U.S.
Constitution gives us a good starting point (though perhaps none of us here
are American, most of us live under copyright laws drafted by their
lobbyists and trade delegations). It gives government the right:
"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries. "
Does the copyright regime currently in effect in your country serve the
noble ends which centuries ago drove the establishment of such laws? While
an entrenched content industry, producing mostly wretched rehashed crap,
fights tooth and nail to prevent anything from ever entering the public
domain? That's where those profits go - not eaten away by 'piracy,' but by
continuous lobbying of the world's governments to pass bad laws! Where an
academic publishing industry gives little to authors beyond mere credit,
sometimes even asking *them *for money, and then turns around and charges
exorbitant amounts? (And then when academic books go out of print, which
happens very quickly, they become very difficult to purchase at any price.)
Where you need institutional affiliation or absurdly deep pockets to have
any hope of accessing up-to-date journals? Where in most cases the would-be
downloader is not even a potential *purchaser *of the book but at most a
potential *library borrower*?
Individuals have to work out the ethics here on their own. Personally I
feel no moral qualms about sharing information, and little desire to
support a dead writer's estate or a publishing industry that seems
generally hostile to both authors and readers. I'd far rather download a
book than either waste my limited funds padding profit margins, or waste an
hour travelling to the library. I'd like to support the work of academic
authors and translators, but what - if any - funds do they actually see
from the sale of a book? I'd far rather access the work for free and - if
it is well done, and if it were possible - compensate them directly, in a
kind of 'tip jar / reputation bump' scheme. I think that any moves toward
open access in academic publishing are laudable, and I think that
filesharing, insofar as it harms for-profit publishers, can only further
the aims of openness. If academic publishers start going belly-up en masse,
academic writing is not going to abruptly cease. As open-access publishing
develops a robust peer-review system of its own and begins to be a source
of academic credit on par with traditional publication, the relevance of
copyright and commercial publishers to the academic author will steadily
approach nil. But of course this will be a difficult and drawn-out process
- really the process of creating a whole new author-subject, rather than
simply bemoaning the 'death' of an older iteration.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alasdair McMillan
Ph.D III / Graduate Assistant
Graduate Program in Science and Technology Studies<http://www.yorku.ca/sts/>
Bethune College, York University
4700 Keele St.
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx> wrote:
> It certainly is true that working in French libraries is not like working
> in American university libraries. We tend to take our almost universal
> access for granted.
>
> I think Tiffany's good faith effort to use libraries and buy books when
> possible is reasonable. It makes publishing economically possible. But
> the idea that she should not read books she would otherwise not have access
> does not seem to have any benefit other than for those who profit from
> restricting information.
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Tiffany P. <princeptiffany@xxxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> >
> > Here responding to Timothy, but also following the general comment
> > initiated by him. (sorry again for my english, still working on it)
> >
> > The aim of the debate was first to allow me, as a french student, to get
> > access to english e-books, may they be free or not.
> > Of course it's always thrilling to download the latest version of a 50$
> > book for free, as a searchable pdf file. (I recall of my first online
> > orgasm : when I found Le foucault ?lectronique, a multi terms searchable
> > file containing almost all of Foucault's books, including Dits et Ecrits.
> > Talking about Foucault's opinion about free e-books (if one may say so),
> > while downloading this treasure I immediately thought I was violating
> > Foucault's own ethics about the concept of oeuvre. All of Foucault's
> books
> > and articles and talks, within the same file ? With electronic data
> > processing allowed ? Oh gosh, it was almost blasphemy. Anyway, I own a
> > whole drawer overflowing with Foucault's books, which I invariably buy.)
> > For me and my french collegues, the problem is the very access to english
> > books, may it be in libraries. French libraries aren't known worldwide to
> > be the finest place to work. We also have a translation jet lag problem.
> In
> > my field, history of sexuality, there are 1980's essential books that
> > aren't translated yet.Furthermore, I live in Lille, and every single
> book I
> > find to be available in a library is in Paris.
> > In the end, what choices do I have ?- move back to Paris- buy every
> single
> > book I have to work on, even if it concerns only one chapter, and find 10
> > 000 euros each month to work on my thesis - download e-books.
> > What do you think I should do ?
> > Joking.
> > Anyway, may internet collaboration live long.
> > Best,
> > Tiffany P.
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:14:22 +0800
> > > From: autrement@xxxxxxxxx
> > > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Online versions ? General Comment
> > >
> > > Dear Foucault-philes,
> > >
> > > Following this discussion of where to download Foucault-related books,
> > and
> > > in light of the recent sudden demise of Megaupload, I wonder if
> anybody
> > > has considered what Foucault himself would say about the (illegal) free
> > > downloading of published books?
> > >
> > > We all know the interview in which he says he'd like to see a year of
> > > publishing anonymously - but I don't recall the year of free books!
> > >
> > > I ask because I have found my own books on some of these sites and I
> have
> > > to admit that at the time I told my publisher about it. Informing on
> the
> > > free flow of information is shameful isn't it. Or is it? The problem is
> > > that if my publisher didn't get paid for their books then they wouldn't
> > be
> > > offering contracts to me (or anybody else), which would cause serious
> > > problems for us all - esp when it comes to getting jobs, tenure, etc ?
> > not
> > > to mention putting citations in your bibliography.
> > >
> > > I understand that access to philosophy shouldn't be dependent on
> > financial
> > > means, esp for graduate students. But isn't that what libraries are
> for?
> > > But, of course, it's so much more convenient to have a searchable pdf
> > file,
> > > isn't it? I actually illegally downloaded my own books just so I could
> > have
> > > a complete pdf version - the publisher didn't give me one.
> > >
> > > So I'm not necessarily condemning the practice - perhaps it's just the
> > > first move in a major epistemic shift - but I do think it would be
> > > interesting to discuss it from a Foucauldian perspective.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Timothy
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Allen Miller
> Chair, Languages, Literatures, and Cultures
> Carolina Distinguished Professor of Classics and Comparative Literature
> President, Southern Comparative Literature Association
> Department of Languages, Literatures, and Cultures
> University of South Carolina
> Columbia, SC 29208
> 803-777-9734
> pamiller@xxxxxx
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 13:47:30 -0600
From: Chathan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Foucault-L] Marx and Foucault
To: Mailing-list <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<CAB9Bae=BNxKx+8dTxY9iEbcVGKh=-DjguDgTcm+XtsAy_H2LmQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I've asked some people I know with expertise on the matter but thought
I'd get a better range of responses here. Me and some Marxist friends
were discussing the Power and Strategies interview where Foucault
talks about the Gulag. My friends felt he was creating a straw man by
suggesting Marxism and Leninism be examined in light of the reality of
the Gulag. They went to further to castigate Foucault for
inadvertently being in theoretical alliance with liberal thought that
only further ignored the necessary critique of capitalism. While I
think they are right about Power and Strategies, I'm not sure if the
other argument follows. Indeed it seems to be a common theme in
Marx-Foucault comparisons. Foucauldians, on the other hand, feel no
guilt in writing off Marxists as intellectual dinosaurs who have at
best contributed to failed political killing machines (Stalin, Mao,
Che). Does anyone on here know of some good arguments or even books
that go beyond these useless exchanges? I personally feel there's a
certain kinship between the two thinkers in terms of subjectiviation,
power relations, concern with historicization. And how would one
respond to such pointless jabs to begin with. I wasn't convinced of
Foucault's neat link between Marx and Soviet repression but I hardly
think that his critique is akin to a liberal philosophy of the state.
--
Chathan Vemuri
900 58th Street
West Des Moines, IA 50266
chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
(319)-512-9318
------------------------------
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End of Foucault-L Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2
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