There is a recent article i found today in a western
newspaper. The artical is a rewiew of a recent book on
the balkans. The author explains shortly the content
of the book. Here is the qoutation from the rewiew.
Please, read it:
" Mazower does not accept the idea that Balkans
violence is result of ancient ethnic hatred. The
source of the conflict often lay outside the region.
VIOLENT NATIONALISM, he stresses, has been IMPORTED IN
THE BALKANS FROM WESTERN EUROPE. It was Western Europe
that gave the peoples of Soutrhern Europe the
ideological weapons with which they could destroy each
other - and themselves."
Joeri Buhrer Tavanier (author of the rewiew)
I havent wrote it. I jsut found it. If You dont trust
me , I will send you scanned copy of the article. The
newspapper is a newspapper about Bulgaria for
foreigners, called "Sofia Echo" - its chief is Brendan
Howe. and here is the book:
The Balkans: Short History
Mark Mazower
The Modern Library, New York 2000,
$19.95
--- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Jivko:
>
> You seem to have committed an odd variation of the
> genetic fallacy --
> because something originates in X ("the west") it
> belongs essentially to
> that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be
> essentially Arabic. Since you
> admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how
> does it remain an
> exclusively "western" property?
>
> I do not understand your question about what
> Foucault "had in common with
> nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a
> nationalist, and one can
> recognize the importance of nationalism (among other
> power formations)
> without either affirming its value, its universality
> or its supreme
> importance.
>
> Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
> Subject: nationalism and the human being
>
>
> > China addopted a western invention - the
> communsim-
> > and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> > investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> > nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about
> it
> > in a collection called "The postmodern explained
> for
> > children". The communism is cultivating
> nationalism
> > and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia).
> I
> > wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> > west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> > notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody
> else.
> > The west sais, that the opposite of the
> nationalism is
> > "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> > Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we
> know
> > "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> > against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the
> man
> > who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me
> again
> > please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> > nationalism?
> >
> > Jivko
> > --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Jivko:
> > >
> > > You are seriously claiming that there is no
> Japanese
> > > or Chinese nationalism?
> > > Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
> > > combination of both? Whether
> > > nationalism is a useful concept requires close
> > > attention to particular
> > > settings. I do not see how anyone could use
> these
> > > global generalizations
> > > about "the west" to understand anything.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jivko Georgiev"
> <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
> > > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> > >
> > >
> > > > I repeat: the nationalism concern only the
> western
> > > > world. To the rest of the world it is
> irrelevant.
> > > > Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant
> issue,
> > > and
> > > > he avoided it.
> > > >
> > > > Zhivko
> > > > --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached
> this
> > > > > question. I wonder if a way
> > > > > to connect Foucault's work in this
> discussion
> > > about
> > > > > nationalism is to
> > > > > identify some of the discourses that have
> gone
> > > into
> > > > > the nationalism
> > > > > literature. Much of what I have read has
> been
> > > > > structuralist or humanist
> > > > > explanations, ways of reasoning that
> Foucault
> > > was
> > > > > avoiding. I am trying to
> > > > > use the concept of governmentality to ask
> what
> > > kinds
> > > > > of national imaginaries
> > > > > have informed U.S. education sciences, so in
> a
> > > way I
> > > > > am using Foucault's
> > > > > concepts rather than concepts of
> nationalism,
> > > but my
> > > > > interests intersect
> > > > > with the question of nationalism. Perhaps
> this
> > > > > worsens the understanding.
> > > > > I hope not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lisa
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jivko Georgiev
> > > > > [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
> > > > > To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you can't see how biopower relates to
> > > > > > nationalism, I don't know what to
> > > > > > tell you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
> > > > > honestly.
> > > > > The nationalism was a question foucault
> never
> > > cared
> > > > > about. But my research showed me that
> "ethnic
> > > > > cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on
> the
> > > > > first
> > > > > page of every western newspapper and
> magazin.
> > > And i
> > > > > say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
> > > guys?
> > > > > Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
> > > which
> > > > > the
> > > > > national borders doesnt exist anymore, and
> in
> > > which
> > > > > everyone is nomore of his own race, this
> world
> > > has
> > > > > as
> > > > > a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
> > > cleansing -
> > > > > this western world is forcing, through the
> help
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > weapon, the other world to confest that he,
> the
> > > > > biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he
> is
> > > doing
> > > > > the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of
> the
> > > world
> > > > > doesnt know what that means. Isnt that
> crazy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Assertion of rights and authorship? How
> > > Foucauldian
> > > > > > is this?
> > > > > How?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards!
> > > > > Jivko
> > > > > --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >===== Original Message From
> > > > > > foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
> > > > > > >Calm down.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of us are calm when writing this.
> > > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
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newspaper. The artical is a rewiew of a recent book on
the balkans. The author explains shortly the content
of the book. Here is the qoutation from the rewiew.
Please, read it:
" Mazower does not accept the idea that Balkans
violence is result of ancient ethnic hatred. The
source of the conflict often lay outside the region.
VIOLENT NATIONALISM, he stresses, has been IMPORTED IN
THE BALKANS FROM WESTERN EUROPE. It was Western Europe
that gave the peoples of Soutrhern Europe the
ideological weapons with which they could destroy each
other - and themselves."
Joeri Buhrer Tavanier (author of the rewiew)
I havent wrote it. I jsut found it. If You dont trust
me , I will send you scanned copy of the article. The
newspapper is a newspapper about Bulgaria for
foreigners, called "Sofia Echo" - its chief is Brendan
Howe. and here is the book:
The Balkans: Short History
Mark Mazower
The Modern Library, New York 2000,
$19.95
--- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Jivko:
>
> You seem to have committed an odd variation of the
> genetic fallacy --
> because something originates in X ("the west") it
> belongs essentially to
> that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be
> essentially Arabic. Since you
> admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how
> does it remain an
> exclusively "western" property?
>
> I do not understand your question about what
> Foucault "had in common with
> nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a
> nationalist, and one can
> recognize the importance of nationalism (among other
> power formations)
> without either affirming its value, its universality
> or its supreme
> importance.
>
> Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
> Subject: nationalism and the human being
>
>
> > China addopted a western invention - the
> communsim-
> > and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> > investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> > nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about
> it
> > in a collection called "The postmodern explained
> for
> > children". The communism is cultivating
> nationalism
> > and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia).
> I
> > wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> > west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> > notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody
> else.
> > The west sais, that the opposite of the
> nationalism is
> > "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> > Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we
> know
> > "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> > against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the
> man
> > who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me
> again
> > please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> > nationalism?
> >
> > Jivko
> > --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Jivko:
> > >
> > > You are seriously claiming that there is no
> Japanese
> > > or Chinese nationalism?
> > > Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
> > > combination of both? Whether
> > > nationalism is a useful concept requires close
> > > attention to particular
> > > settings. I do not see how anyone could use
> these
> > > global generalizations
> > > about "the west" to understand anything.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jivko Georgiev"
> <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
> > > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> > >
> > >
> > > > I repeat: the nationalism concern only the
> western
> > > > world. To the rest of the world it is
> irrelevant.
> > > > Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant
> issue,
> > > and
> > > > he avoided it.
> > > >
> > > > Zhivko
> > > > --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached
> this
> > > > > question. I wonder if a way
> > > > > to connect Foucault's work in this
> discussion
> > > about
> > > > > nationalism is to
> > > > > identify some of the discourses that have
> gone
> > > into
> > > > > the nationalism
> > > > > literature. Much of what I have read has
> been
> > > > > structuralist or humanist
> > > > > explanations, ways of reasoning that
> Foucault
> > > was
> > > > > avoiding. I am trying to
> > > > > use the concept of governmentality to ask
> what
> > > kinds
> > > > > of national imaginaries
> > > > > have informed U.S. education sciences, so in
> a
> > > way I
> > > > > am using Foucault's
> > > > > concepts rather than concepts of
> nationalism,
> > > but my
> > > > > interests intersect
> > > > > with the question of nationalism. Perhaps
> this
> > > > > worsens the understanding.
> > > > > I hope not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lisa
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jivko Georgiev
> > > > > [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
> > > > > To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you can't see how biopower relates to
> > > > > > nationalism, I don't know what to
> > > > > > tell you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
> > > > > honestly.
> > > > > The nationalism was a question foucault
> never
> > > cared
> > > > > about. But my research showed me that
> "ethnic
> > > > > cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on
> the
> > > > > first
> > > > > page of every western newspapper and
> magazin.
> > > And i
> > > > > say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
> > > guys?
> > > > > Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
> > > which
> > > > > the
> > > > > national borders doesnt exist anymore, and
> in
> > > which
> > > > > everyone is nomore of his own race, this
> world
> > > has
> > > > > as
> > > > > a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
> > > cleansing -
> > > > > this western world is forcing, through the
> help
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > weapon, the other world to confest that he,
> the
> > > > > biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he
> is
> > > doing
> > > > > the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of
> the
> > > world
> > > > > doesnt know what that means. Isnt that
> crazy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Assertion of rights and authorship? How
> > > Foucauldian
> > > > > > is this?
> > > > > How?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards!
> > > > > Jivko
> > > > > --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >===== Original Message From
> > > > > > foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
> > > > > > >Calm down.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of us are calm when writing this.
> > > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
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