And the Chinese wall was just for decoration? You just don't know what
you're talking about!
Jivko Georgiev wrote:
> China addopted a western invention - the communsim-
> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about it
> in a collection called "The postmodern explained for
> children". The communism is cultivating nationalism
> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia). I
> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody else.
> The west sais, that the opposite of the nationalism is
> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we know
> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the man
> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me again
> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> nationalism?
>
> Jivko
> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Jivko:
>>
>> You are seriously claiming that there is no Japanese
>> or Chinese nationalism?
>> Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
>> combination of both? Whether
>> nationalism is a useful concept requires close
>> attention to particular
>> settings. I do not see how anyone could use these
>> global generalizations
>> about "the west" to understand anything.
>>
>> Larry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>
>>
>>> I repeat: the nationalism concern only the western
>>> world. To the rest of the world it is irrelevant.
>>> Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant issue,
>>
>> and
>>
>>> he avoided it.
>>>
>>> Zhivko
>>> --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached this
>>>> question. I wonder if a way
>>>> to connect Foucault's work in this discussion
>>>
>> about
>>
>>>> nationalism is to
>>>> identify some of the discourses that have gone
>>>
>> into
>>
>>>> the nationalism
>>>> literature. Much of what I have read has been
>>>> structuralist or humanist
>>>> explanations, ways of reasoning that Foucault
>>>
>> was
>>
>>>> avoiding. I am trying to
>>>> use the concept of governmentality to ask what
>>>
>> kinds
>>
>>>> of national imaginaries
>>>> have informed U.S. education sciences, so in a
>>>
>> way I
>>
>>>> am using Foucault's
>>>> concepts rather than concepts of nationalism,
>>>
>> but my
>>
>>>> interests intersect
>>>> with the question of nationalism. Perhaps this
>>>> worsens the understanding.
>>>> I hope not.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jivko Georgiev
>>>> [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
>>>> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you can't see how biopower relates to
>>>>> nationalism, I don't know what to
>>>>> tell you.
>>>>>
>>>> neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
>>>> honestly.
>>>> The nationalism was a question foucault never
>>>
>> cared
>>
>>>> about. But my research showed me that "ethnic
>>>> cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on the
>>>> first
>>>> page of every western newspapper and magazin.
>>>
>> And i
>>
>>>> say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
>>>
>> guys?
>>
>>>> Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
>>>
>> which
>>
>>>> the
>>>> national borders doesnt exist anymore, and in
>>>
>> which
>>
>>>> everyone is nomore of his own race, this world
>>>
>> has
>>
>>>> as
>>>> a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
>>>
>> cleansing -
>>
>>>> this western world is forcing, through the help
>>>
>> of
>>
>>>> the
>>>> weapon, the other world to confest that he, the
>>>> biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he is
>>>
>> doing
>>
>>>> the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of the
>>>
>> world
>>
>>>> doesnt know what that means. Isnt that crazy?
>>>>
>>>> Assertion of rights and authorship? How
>>>
>> Foucauldian
>>
>>>>> is this?
>>>>
>>>> How?
>>>>
>>>> Regards!
>>>> Jivko
>>>> --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> ===== Original Message From
>>>>>
>>>>> foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
>>>>>
>>>>>> Calm down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of us are calm when writing this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me most of all say, that Michel Foucault
>>>>>
>> has
>>
>>>>>> never, absolutely never dealed with any
>>>>>
>> questions
>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> nation, nationalism and so on ,these were
>>>>>
>> never
>>
>>>>> among
>>>>>
>>>>>> his problems. never.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am of a nationality, which has suffered for
>>>>>
>> 500
>>
>>>>>> years under the turkish tirany, so i have the
>>>>>
>>>> right
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> say whatever i want about the arabs. they are
>>>>>
>>>>> always a
>>>>>
>>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "... Goodness,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Nathan Widder
>>>>> Lecturer in Political Theory
>>>>> University of Exeter
>>>>> Department of Politics
>>>>> Amory Building
>>>>> Rennes Drive
>>>>> Exeter EX4 4RJ
>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>> Tel: +44 (0)1392 263 183
>>>>> Fax: +44 (0)1392 263 305
>>>>>
>> http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/politics/staff/widder/
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>>> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo!
>>>
>> Mail
>>
>>>> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
>>> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
you're talking about!
Jivko Georgiev wrote:
> China addopted a western invention - the communsim-
> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about it
> in a collection called "The postmodern explained for
> children". The communism is cultivating nationalism
> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia). I
> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody else.
> The west sais, that the opposite of the nationalism is
> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we know
> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the man
> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me again
> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> nationalism?
>
> Jivko
> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Jivko:
>>
>> You are seriously claiming that there is no Japanese
>> or Chinese nationalism?
>> Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
>> combination of both? Whether
>> nationalism is a useful concept requires close
>> attention to particular
>> settings. I do not see how anyone could use these
>> global generalizations
>> about "the west" to understand anything.
>>
>> Larry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>
>>
>>> I repeat: the nationalism concern only the western
>>> world. To the rest of the world it is irrelevant.
>>> Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant issue,
>>
>> and
>>
>>> he avoided it.
>>>
>>> Zhivko
>>> --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached this
>>>> question. I wonder if a way
>>>> to connect Foucault's work in this discussion
>>>
>> about
>>
>>>> nationalism is to
>>>> identify some of the discourses that have gone
>>>
>> into
>>
>>>> the nationalism
>>>> literature. Much of what I have read has been
>>>> structuralist or humanist
>>>> explanations, ways of reasoning that Foucault
>>>
>> was
>>
>>>> avoiding. I am trying to
>>>> use the concept of governmentality to ask what
>>>
>> kinds
>>
>>>> of national imaginaries
>>>> have informed U.S. education sciences, so in a
>>>
>> way I
>>
>>>> am using Foucault's
>>>> concepts rather than concepts of nationalism,
>>>
>> but my
>>
>>>> interests intersect
>>>> with the question of nationalism. Perhaps this
>>>> worsens the understanding.
>>>> I hope not.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jivko Georgiev
>>>> [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
>>>> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you can't see how biopower relates to
>>>>> nationalism, I don't know what to
>>>>> tell you.
>>>>>
>>>> neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
>>>> honestly.
>>>> The nationalism was a question foucault never
>>>
>> cared
>>
>>>> about. But my research showed me that "ethnic
>>>> cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on the
>>>> first
>>>> page of every western newspapper and magazin.
>>>
>> And i
>>
>>>> say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
>>>
>> guys?
>>
>>>> Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
>>>
>> which
>>
>>>> the
>>>> national borders doesnt exist anymore, and in
>>>
>> which
>>
>>>> everyone is nomore of his own race, this world
>>>
>> has
>>
>>>> as
>>>> a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
>>>
>> cleansing -
>>
>>>> this western world is forcing, through the help
>>>
>> of
>>
>>>> the
>>>> weapon, the other world to confest that he, the
>>>> biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he is
>>>
>> doing
>>
>>>> the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of the
>>>
>> world
>>
>>>> doesnt know what that means. Isnt that crazy?
>>>>
>>>> Assertion of rights and authorship? How
>>>
>> Foucauldian
>>
>>>>> is this?
>>>>
>>>> How?
>>>>
>>>> Regards!
>>>> Jivko
>>>> --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> ===== Original Message From
>>>>>
>>>>> foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
>>>>>
>>>>>> Calm down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of us are calm when writing this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me most of all say, that Michel Foucault
>>>>>
>> has
>>
>>>>>> never, absolutely never dealed with any
>>>>>
>> questions
>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> nation, nationalism and so on ,these were
>>>>>
>> never
>>
>>>>> among
>>>>>
>>>>>> his problems. never.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am of a nationality, which has suffered for
>>>>>
>> 500
>>
>>>>>> years under the turkish tirany, so i have the
>>>>>
>>>> right
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> say whatever i want about the arabs. they are
>>>>>
>>>>> always a
>>>>>
>>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "... Goodness,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Nathan Widder
>>>>> Lecturer in Political Theory
>>>>> University of Exeter
>>>>> Department of Politics
>>>>> Amory Building
>>>>> Rennes Drive
>>>>> Exeter EX4 4RJ
>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>> Tel: +44 (0)1392 263 183
>>>>> Fax: +44 (0)1392 263 305
>>>>>
>> http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/politics/staff/widder/
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>>> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo!
>>>
>>
>>>> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
>>> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>