that is verry precise said! "process that creates the
institutions we are familiar with today". It does not
implyes bynary system "positive-negative attitude".
I have nothing more to add in this moment, so please
excuse me!
--- Greg Seppi <wasistaufkung@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Well, personally I think that "using" Foucault
> involves taking what analysis you want from
> Foucault's
> writings and applying that analysis or
> deconstruction
> of myths to whatever struggle you happen to be
> engaged
> in.
> I had a problem with Foucault's habits of being
> non-to-specific when analyzing institutions, but I
> think he clarifies his writings often enough to
> allow
> us to assert that his writings in DP are
> prison-specific, but also allow us to view a process
> that creates the institutions we are familiar with
> today, or at least to trace the involvement of ideal
> forms of punishment into the institutions of today.
> Like he says, if his analysis of the prison sounds
> familiar in another institution, then perhaps
> there's
> a reason for that. If it can't, then there is
> probably
> a reason for that too.
>
> Questions? Comments? Reply!
> -Greg
> --- Jivko Georgiev <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > Your formulations are precise, but what you make
> is
> > a
> > ascertion:"institutional 'forms' are embedded in
> > (historical) systems of knowledge and power?". An
> > ascertion is not negative attitude towards what it
> > ascerts. What Foucault makes is such ascertions,
> > that
> > is what i meant by "mere historical description".
> I
> > guess You dont whant to say to the man, who posed
> > his
> > qouestion, that Foucault has negative attitude
> > towards
> > the shelters for homeless? He meant a complex of
> > historical research, followed by
> generalizations(in
> > this formule im not too sure). But what realy was
> > that, what F. made? Was it
> > archeological/genealogical
> > research, or both research with generalizations?
> > That
> > is a problem to me : How we should work with F.
> > writings? Should we search for generaliztions of
> the
> > historical material, or somethinelse, which i cant
> > figure out it is?
> >
> > Jivko
> > - that it is one and
> > > >
> > > would it be incorrect to say that the
> 'negativity'
> > > inherent to Foucault's geneological project
> > derives
> > > from the process of historicizing and
> > > de-mythologicizing social institutions?
> > >
> > > Would one be far off the mark in interpreting
> this
> > > process as a way of de-essentializing the
> object/s
> > > of enquiry in such a way as to show that
> > > institutional 'forms' are embedded in
> (historical)
> > > systems of knowledge and power? - that it is one
> > and
> > > the same force which leads to the generation of
> > > languages of expression (discourse) and, on the
> > > other hand, determines systems of monitoring and
> > > control? - that institutions are invested with
> > > interests of both liberation and repression?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't describing Foucault's geneological
> > project
> > > simply as 'an investigation of the history of a
> > > practice' or 'a mere historical description of
> > > practices' go directly against the thrust of his
> > > project: ie to show that what portrays itself as
> > > 'innocent' curiosity is another form of
> > > power-as-monitoring, that knowledge cannot be
> > > separated from the subject who attains it, that
> > the
> > > perspective one has the privilege to gaze from
> is
> > > intrinsically linked to the privilages
> > appropriated
> > > by the gaze?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't one be assimilating Foucault with all
> > those
> > > and all that from which he wanted to distance
> > > himself, if one were to neutralise his
> > 'negativity',
> > > or pessimism, by calling his analyses 'objective
> > > historical investigations/descriptions'?
> > >
> > >
> > > caldon
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
> > http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com
institutions we are familiar with today". It does not
implyes bynary system "positive-negative attitude".
I have nothing more to add in this moment, so please
excuse me!
--- Greg Seppi <wasistaufkung@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Well, personally I think that "using" Foucault
> involves taking what analysis you want from
> Foucault's
> writings and applying that analysis or
> deconstruction
> of myths to whatever struggle you happen to be
> engaged
> in.
> I had a problem with Foucault's habits of being
> non-to-specific when analyzing institutions, but I
> think he clarifies his writings often enough to
> allow
> us to assert that his writings in DP are
> prison-specific, but also allow us to view a process
> that creates the institutions we are familiar with
> today, or at least to trace the involvement of ideal
> forms of punishment into the institutions of today.
> Like he says, if his analysis of the prison sounds
> familiar in another institution, then perhaps
> there's
> a reason for that. If it can't, then there is
> probably
> a reason for that too.
>
> Questions? Comments? Reply!
> -Greg
> --- Jivko Georgiev <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > Your formulations are precise, but what you make
> is
> > a
> > ascertion:"institutional 'forms' are embedded in
> > (historical) systems of knowledge and power?". An
> > ascertion is not negative attitude towards what it
> > ascerts. What Foucault makes is such ascertions,
> > that
> > is what i meant by "mere historical description".
> I
> > guess You dont whant to say to the man, who posed
> > his
> > qouestion, that Foucault has negative attitude
> > towards
> > the shelters for homeless? He meant a complex of
> > historical research, followed by
> generalizations(in
> > this formule im not too sure). But what realy was
> > that, what F. made? Was it
> > archeological/genealogical
> > research, or both research with generalizations?
> > That
> > is a problem to me : How we should work with F.
> > writings? Should we search for generaliztions of
> the
> > historical material, or somethinelse, which i cant
> > figure out it is?
> >
> > Jivko
> > - that it is one and
> > > >
> > > would it be incorrect to say that the
> 'negativity'
> > > inherent to Foucault's geneological project
> > derives
> > > from the process of historicizing and
> > > de-mythologicizing social institutions?
> > >
> > > Would one be far off the mark in interpreting
> this
> > > process as a way of de-essentializing the
> object/s
> > > of enquiry in such a way as to show that
> > > institutional 'forms' are embedded in
> (historical)
> > > systems of knowledge and power? - that it is one
> > and
> > > the same force which leads to the generation of
> > > languages of expression (discourse) and, on the
> > > other hand, determines systems of monitoring and
> > > control? - that institutions are invested with
> > > interests of both liberation and repression?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't describing Foucault's geneological
> > project
> > > simply as 'an investigation of the history of a
> > > practice' or 'a mere historical description of
> > > practices' go directly against the thrust of his
> > > project: ie to show that what portrays itself as
> > > 'innocent' curiosity is another form of
> > > power-as-monitoring, that knowledge cannot be
> > > separated from the subject who attains it, that
> > the
> > > perspective one has the privilege to gaze from
> is
> > > intrinsically linked to the privilages
> > appropriated
> > > by the gaze?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't one be assimilating Foucault with all
> > those
> > > and all that from which he wanted to distance
> > > himself, if one were to neutralise his
> > 'negativity',
> > > or pessimism, by calling his analyses 'objective
> > > historical investigations/descriptions'?
> > >
> > >
> > > caldon
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
> > http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com