Foucault was not actually unaware of this point - see, for example, the comments F makes regarding the Orient and the 'universality of the Western ratio' in the 1961 Preface to History of Madness pp. xxx.
Regards,
Kevin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vagabond@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:54:20 +1030
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] The History of Sexuality volume 1 and western
> vs eastern sexuality
>
> The point Foucault was making was quite simple. His knowledge was
> limited to the "West" ... but I'd say that, like most French
> intellectuals, he took France as typical of "the West" and just
> generalized from the French experience. This is quite evident in
> Discipline and Punish, for example.
>
> I don't think you can blame him for not extending his analysis to,
> say, Cambodia. You can use and extend his conceptual apparatus to
> analyze those countries that are not "Western". But what you can
> point out as a shortcoming of Foucault's work is that it does not
> explore how images of "the East" are constitutive of this category of
> "the West" and thus lend an imaginary homogeneity to what he claims
> as his own object ... it is that procedure that enables him to ignore
> both "the East" and the differences within "the West" ...
>
> So postcolonialism can have something to say about Foucault, if it
> turns from his "neglect" of the empires and considers how Foucault
> ignores the effects of images of the Other in constituting "the West"
> as a seemingly coherent object of analysis.
>
> Also postcolonial studies using Foucault's conceptual apparatus can
> lead to revision of Foucault's periodization and historical accounts
> of the discourses that he analyzes, given that many of them in fact
> originated in colonial situations ... e.g. see Ann Laura Stoler's work
>
> I hope this makes sense.
>
>
> On 14/12/2008, at 10:36 AM, Chetan Vemuri wrote:
>
>>
>> haha
>> i love the irony
>> no way is this the happiest season of the year.
>> especially for us non-christians.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, Foucault did say in a Japanese lecture that his case studies
>> were
>> specific to european contexts and would not necessarily be
>> applicable to
>> societies like Japan, China, India etc. But he did feel that his
>> methods
>> could be of use outside of the West.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Kaelin Alexander <
>> kaelin.alexander@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas (and Chetan),
>>>
>>> One could also make the argument (which Halperin does) that
>>> Foucault's
>>> overall emphasis on the discursive formation of sexuality already
>>> points
>>> and
>>> admits to the limits of his stated analysis, while also pointing
>>> towards
>>> the
>>> usefulness of his methodology in looking at discursive sexual
>>> practices in
>>> other time time periods, and outside the West.
>>>
>>> While this sort of thing could easily become a kind of navel-gazing
>>> claim--"But are we ever discursive enough?"--and sometimes it
>>> *does, *a
>>> work
>>> that takes this sort of methodology up fairly well is William
>>> Naphy's *Born
>>> to be Gay.* The title here is very misleading, so please don't
>>> read too far
>>> into it. It's a nice, well-researched survey of sexual practices
>>> on a more
>>> global scale--going back, I think to Sumeria. It's better as an
>>> introductory
>>> work which points towards *other* texts, but it's still quite
>>> informative
>>> and highly readable.
>>>
>>> Apologies for my rather clipped earlier response. It's definitely
>>> that time
>>> of year. "Hap, Happiest Season of All" my foot. Haha.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Kaelin Alexander
>>> Graduate Student
>>> Cornell University
>>> Department of English
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Thomas Lord <lord@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 17:36 -0500, Kaelin Alexander wrote:
>>>>> Chetan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Short answer: No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Long answer: Read Halperin's *Saint Foucault.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps one of the real scholars can fill in my
>>>> memory on something I half remember: there's a
>>>> piece by Foucault or a transcript of a conversation
>>>> where he talks about the application of his ideas
>>>> outside the west. I don't recall whether he talked
>>>> about History of Sexuality specifically or not but
>>>> he did make sort of overarching (his whole program)
>>>> statements to the effect he was analyzing specific
>>>> cases and yes those cases were all in what one
>>>> could informally call "the West" and that while
>>>> his mode of analysis had applicability elsewhere
>>>> his historical narrative did not. Does that
>>>> ring any bells?
>>>>
>>>> -t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chetan Vemuri
>> West Des Moines, IA
>> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> (515)-418-2771
>> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to
>> change the
>> world"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
Regards,
Kevin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vagabond@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:54:20 +1030
> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] The History of Sexuality volume 1 and western
> vs eastern sexuality
>
> The point Foucault was making was quite simple. His knowledge was
> limited to the "West" ... but I'd say that, like most French
> intellectuals, he took France as typical of "the West" and just
> generalized from the French experience. This is quite evident in
> Discipline and Punish, for example.
>
> I don't think you can blame him for not extending his analysis to,
> say, Cambodia. You can use and extend his conceptual apparatus to
> analyze those countries that are not "Western". But what you can
> point out as a shortcoming of Foucault's work is that it does not
> explore how images of "the East" are constitutive of this category of
> "the West" and thus lend an imaginary homogeneity to what he claims
> as his own object ... it is that procedure that enables him to ignore
> both "the East" and the differences within "the West" ...
>
> So postcolonialism can have something to say about Foucault, if it
> turns from his "neglect" of the empires and considers how Foucault
> ignores the effects of images of the Other in constituting "the West"
> as a seemingly coherent object of analysis.
>
> Also postcolonial studies using Foucault's conceptual apparatus can
> lead to revision of Foucault's periodization and historical accounts
> of the discourses that he analyzes, given that many of them in fact
> originated in colonial situations ... e.g. see Ann Laura Stoler's work
>
> I hope this makes sense.
>
>
> On 14/12/2008, at 10:36 AM, Chetan Vemuri wrote:
>
>>
>> haha
>> i love the irony
>> no way is this the happiest season of the year.
>> especially for us non-christians.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, Foucault did say in a Japanese lecture that his case studies
>> were
>> specific to european contexts and would not necessarily be
>> applicable to
>> societies like Japan, China, India etc. But he did feel that his
>> methods
>> could be of use outside of the West.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Kaelin Alexander <
>> kaelin.alexander@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas (and Chetan),
>>>
>>> One could also make the argument (which Halperin does) that
>>> Foucault's
>>> overall emphasis on the discursive formation of sexuality already
>>> points
>>> and
>>> admits to the limits of his stated analysis, while also pointing
>>> towards
>>> the
>>> usefulness of his methodology in looking at discursive sexual
>>> practices in
>>> other time time periods, and outside the West.
>>>
>>> While this sort of thing could easily become a kind of navel-gazing
>>> claim--"But are we ever discursive enough?"--and sometimes it
>>> *does, *a
>>> work
>>> that takes this sort of methodology up fairly well is William
>>> Naphy's *Born
>>> to be Gay.* The title here is very misleading, so please don't
>>> read too far
>>> into it. It's a nice, well-researched survey of sexual practices
>>> on a more
>>> global scale--going back, I think to Sumeria. It's better as an
>>> introductory
>>> work which points towards *other* texts, but it's still quite
>>> informative
>>> and highly readable.
>>>
>>> Apologies for my rather clipped earlier response. It's definitely
>>> that time
>>> of year. "Hap, Happiest Season of All" my foot. Haha.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Kaelin Alexander
>>> Graduate Student
>>> Cornell University
>>> Department of English
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Thomas Lord <lord@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 17:36 -0500, Kaelin Alexander wrote:
>>>>> Chetan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Short answer: No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Long answer: Read Halperin's *Saint Foucault.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps one of the real scholars can fill in my
>>>> memory on something I half remember: there's a
>>>> piece by Foucault or a transcript of a conversation
>>>> where he talks about the application of his ideas
>>>> outside the west. I don't recall whether he talked
>>>> about History of Sexuality specifically or not but
>>>> he did make sort of overarching (his whole program)
>>>> statements to the effect he was analyzing specific
>>>> cases and yes those cases were all in what one
>>>> could informally call "the West" and that while
>>>> his mode of analysis had applicability elsewhere
>>>> his historical narrative did not. Does that
>>>> ring any bells?
>>>>
>>>> -t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chetan Vemuri
>> West Des Moines, IA
>> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> (515)-418-2771
>> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to
>> change the
>> world"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list