RE: Foucault and rational choice

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Richard,
=20
I have been a sort of a 'hangaround' participant on this list, mostly
because I cannot relate to most of the labels Foucault's writings are
usually labelled under. The only reason I have not unsubscribed yet has =
been
that there sometimes pops up some topics in closer relation to my own
interests, which also lie rather close to rational choice theory, or to =
put
better, rational action theory. Your post was one of those.
=20
I think the main key to unlock the relation of rational choice and =
Foucault
could be his relation to Max Weber. If I remember correctly, there =
should be
some passages somewhere where Foucault claims that his sociological =
program
is very close to that of Weber. It may be that I remember this right or
wrong, but there certainly are similar topics in the work of both =
authors
that are concerned here, too: power, social systems, action in social
constraints etc... Foucault propably is much more closer to Weber than =
to
usual rational choice thinking. However, most of work done in rational
choice theory in social sciences rests on Weber's concept of rational =
social
action (sometimes this relation is explicit, most of times not) but
concentrates only one side of his concept of rationality.=20
=20
This is a weakness in rational choice theory that most of the author's =
in
the field of RCT are not too willing to deal with and propably also =
leads to
problems you have faced. However, even economist doing work in rational
choice theory have no real excuses to forget Weber - Weber held various
academic chair's in economics and was propably considered better as an
economist than a sociologist in his days.=20
=20
So, rather than jump straight from Foucault to rational choice, I would
suggest to build a bridge between these two main interests here through =
the
work of Weber. Or if that does not work, take one step further, through =
the
relation between Kant, Weber and Foucault.
=20
Jani Erola

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Levesque [mailto:rlevesqu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 14. kes=E4kuuta 2002 12:46
To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Foucault and rational choice=20

Hello,

My name is Richard Levesque. I am a PhD student. In my thesis
project, I try to integrate and develop Foucault's ideas concerning the
productive aspect of power in a rational choice context.=20

=20

Thus far, I have not been able to convince anyone who is knowledgeable =
of
Foucault's work that it is either possible or, for that matter, =
worthwhile
to transpose Foucault's ideas concerning the productive aspect of power =
in a
rational choice context. I explain my lack of success in that regard by =
the
fact that the vast majority of people who know Foucault happen to be =
rather
critical of rational choice theories and, more particularly, of the
methodology on which they rely to study social phenomena. Thus far, =
only
economists have displayed an interest in my work and positive comments =
about
it (which has quite surprised me since, at the outset, I thought that =
it
would be the other way around).

=20

In a short piece (less than 10 pages long) that is available on my =
website,
I explain how it is possible to integrate Foucault's ideas concerning =
the
productive aspect of power within a rational choice context and, more
particularly, I explain how Foucault's views on productive power can be =
used
to study in a whole new way policy processes from a rational choice
perspective.=20

=20

I would really appreciate it if some people that have a good knowledge =
and
understanding of Foucault' work would take the time to take a look at =
it and
give me some comments. To see and read it, just click on the following
link:

=20

<http://rideau.carleton.ca/~rlevesqu/introduction.htm>
http://rideau.carleton.ca/~rlevesqu/introduction.htm

=20

I would especially appreciate comments concerning the section (pages 5 =
to 8)
in which I discuss and explain how Foucault conceives power =
relationships. I
want to make sure that I got Foucault right and also that I do not =
stretch
his ideas too far to make them fit in a rational choice context.=20

=20

Thanks...

=20

Richard Levesque

=20

P.S.: the piece posted on my website is totally different from the one =
I
posted on this list two years ago.=20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Richard,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have=20
been a sort of a 'hangaround' participant on this list, mostly because =
I cannot=20
relate to most of the labels Foucault's writings are usually labelled =
under. The=20
only reason I have not unsubscribed yet has been that there sometimes =
pops up=20
some topics in closer relation to my own interests, which also lie =
rather close=20
to rational choice theory, or to put better, rational action theory. =
Your post=20
was one of those.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I=20
think the main key to unlock the relation of rational choice and =
Foucault could=20
be his relation to Max Weber. If I remember correctly, there should be =
some=20
passages somewhere where Foucault claims that his sociological =
program is=20
very close to that of Weber. It may be that I remember this right or =
wrong, but=20
there certainly are similar topics in the work of both=20
authors that are concerned here, too: power, social =
systems, action in=20
social constraints etc... Foucault propably is much more closer to =
Weber than to=20
usual rational choice thinking. However, most of work done =
in rational=20
choice theory in social sciences rests on Weber's concept of rational =
social=20
action (sometimes this relation is explicit, most of times=20
not) but concentrates only one side of his concept of=20
rationality. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This=20
is a weakness in rational choice theory that most of the author's in =
the field=20
of RCT are not too willing to deal with and propably also leads to =
problems you=20
have faced. However, even economist doing work in rational choice =
theory have no=20
real excuses to forget Weber - Weber held various academic =
chair's in=20
economics and was propably considered better as an economist than a =
sociologist=20
in his days. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So,=20
rather than jump straight from Foucault to rational choice, I =
would suggest=20
to build a bridge between these two main interests here through =
the work of=20
Weber. Or if that does not work, take one step further, through =
the=20
relation between Kant, Weber and Foucault.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jani=20
Erola</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>-----Original Message----- From: Richard Levesque=20
[mailto:rlevesqu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: 14. kes=E4kuuta =
2002=20
12:46 To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject:=
=20
Foucault and rational choice </DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Hello,<o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">         =20
My name is Richard Levesque. I am a PhD student. In my thesis =
project,=20
I try to integrate and develop Foucault's ideas concerning the =
productive=20
aspect of power in a rational choice context. =
<o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">Thus far, I have =
not been able=20
to convince anyone who is knowledgeable of Foucault's work that it is =
either=20
possible or, for that matter, worthwhile to transpose Foucault's =
ideas=20
concerning the productive aspect of power in a rational choice =
context. I=20
explain my lack of success in that regard by the fact that the vast =
majority=20
of people who know Foucault happen to be rather critical of rational =
choice=20
theories and, more particularly, of the methodology on which they =
rely to=20
study social phenomena. Thus far, only economists have displayed an =
interest=20
in my work and positive comments about it (which has quite surprised =
me since,=20
at the outset, I thought that it would be the other way=20
around).<o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">In a short piece =
(less than 10=20
pages long) that is available on my website, I explain how it is =
possible to=20
integrate Foucault's ideas concerning the productive aspect of power =
within a=20
rational choice context and, more particularly, I explain how =
Foucault's views=20
on productive power can be used to study in a whole new way policy =
processes=20
from a rational choice perspective. <o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">I would really =
appreciate=20
it if some people that have a good knowledge and understanding of =
Foucault'=20
work would take the time to take a look at it and give me some =
comments. <SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> To see and read it, just =
click on the=20
following link:<o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><A=20
href=3D"http://rideau.carleton.ca/~rlevesqu/introduction.htm";><FONT=20
=
size=3D3>http://rideau.carleton.ca/~rlevesqu/introduction.htm</A>=
<o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">I would especially =
appreciate=20
comments concerning the section (pages 5 to 8) in which I discuss and =
explain=20
how Foucault conceives power relationships. I want to make sure that =
I got=20
Foucault right and also that I do not stretch his ideas too far to =
make them=20
fit in a rational choice context. <o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Thanks...<o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">Richard=20
Levesque<o:p></o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3> </o:p>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">P.S.: the piece =
posted on my=20
website is totally different from the one I posted on this list two =
years ago.=20
<o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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