I would agree with Rizvi. F. would say that there is choice, but that
the moment of choosing is only the beginning. For the individual to
live and function somewhat successfully within his choices is a constant
battle of which the individual must always be conscious. To recognize
such is, as Barthes would say, joissance, pleasure and play within the
text. Nietzsche and Sartre would also agree with everyday life as a
work of art. This is where all these thinkers, for me anyway, make the
most sense, usefulness, and just plain old fun. It's time for a
post-modern Homeric odyssey, but perhaps Joyce has already been there.
Incidentally, I've been meaning to write a review of _The Truman Show_
that develops these ideas. I think this film, curiously, has
interesting depths that broach discussion among Ellison's _Invisible
Man_, W.E.B. Du Bois's _The Souls of Black Folk_, and Foucault's work on
madness, medical perception, and punishment.
Edward
Ali Rizvi wrote:
>
> just a quick note.
>
> I would say it is more complex than this. What Foucualt would probably say
> is that choice is indeed possible, but this possiblity is a situated
> possiblity and emerge within a system and structured by it to certain extent
> [one system can be more conducive to this than the other though]. Foucault
> stresses on the primacy of system, and he thought both idnividualtion and
> soiciation occurs within system, it does not in any way, however, proves
> that he denies choice. The question is not the denial or non denial, but of
> reconceptualisation.
>
> About Sartre, we should keep in mind the all pervasive influence of Sartre
> as well. Foucault has more complex relation with Sartre, Hegel and Kant than
> normally thought.
>
> regards
> ali
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Jivko Georgiev <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Foucault and rational choice
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 03:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
>
> This will be short,
> but as far as i am in studiing F. i think one of his
> basic points are that there are system of knowledge,
> power and ethics that pre-exist the indivduals, and
> the individuals are bound to conform to the systems,
> which defines the rules : Thus the individual can not
> choose - the system defines her/his possible choices.
> This is contrary to Sartre. There was lecture by the
> ph.d. from Chicago Uni Thomas Flint. He said F. always
> wanted to be opposed to Sartre. So if we oppose Sartre
> to himself, than we might have Foucault, lol...
>
> Lostantin
> --- Richard Levesque <rlevesqu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > My name is Richard Levesque. I am a PhD
> > student. In my thesis project, I try to integrate
> > and develop Foucault's ideas concerning the
> > productive aspect of power in a rational choice
> > context.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thus far, I have not been able to convince anyone
> > who is knowledgeable of Foucault's work that it is
> > either possible or, for that matter, worthwhile to
> > transpose Foucault's ideas concerning the productive
> > aspect of power in a rational choice context. I
> > explain my lack of success in that regard by the
> > fact that the vast majority of people who know
> > Foucault happen to be rather critical of rational
> > choice theories and, more particularly, of the
> > methodology on which they rely to study social
> > phenomena. Thus far, only economists have displayed
> > an interest in my work and positive comments about
> > it (which has quite surprised me since, at the
> > outset, I thought that it would be the other way
> > around).
> >
> >
> >
> > In a short piece (less than 10 pages long) that is
> > available on my website, I explain how it is
> > possible to integrate Foucault's ideas concerning
> > the productive aspect of power within a rational
> > choice context and, more particularly, I explain how
> > Foucault's views on productive power can be used to
> > study in a whole new way policy processes from a
> > rational choice perspective.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would really appreciate it if some people that
> > have a good knowledge and understanding of Foucault'
> > work would take the time to take a look at it and
> > give me some comments. To see and read it, just
> > click on the following link:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://rideau.carleton.ca/~rlevesqu/introduction.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > I would especially appreciate comments concerning
> > the section (pages 5 to 8) in which I discuss and
> > explain how Foucault conceives power relationships.
> > I want to make sure that I got Foucault right and
> > also that I do not stretch his ideas too far to make
> > them fit in a rational choice context.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard Levesque
> >
> >
> >
> > P.S.: the piece posted on my website is totally
> > different from the one I posted on this list two
> > years ago.
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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the moment of choosing is only the beginning. For the individual to
live and function somewhat successfully within his choices is a constant
battle of which the individual must always be conscious. To recognize
such is, as Barthes would say, joissance, pleasure and play within the
text. Nietzsche and Sartre would also agree with everyday life as a
work of art. This is where all these thinkers, for me anyway, make the
most sense, usefulness, and just plain old fun. It's time for a
post-modern Homeric odyssey, but perhaps Joyce has already been there.
Incidentally, I've been meaning to write a review of _The Truman Show_
that develops these ideas. I think this film, curiously, has
interesting depths that broach discussion among Ellison's _Invisible
Man_, W.E.B. Du Bois's _The Souls of Black Folk_, and Foucault's work on
madness, medical perception, and punishment.
Edward
Ali Rizvi wrote:
>
> just a quick note.
>
> I would say it is more complex than this. What Foucualt would probably say
> is that choice is indeed possible, but this possiblity is a situated
> possiblity and emerge within a system and structured by it to certain extent
> [one system can be more conducive to this than the other though]. Foucault
> stresses on the primacy of system, and he thought both idnividualtion and
> soiciation occurs within system, it does not in any way, however, proves
> that he denies choice. The question is not the denial or non denial, but of
> reconceptualisation.
>
> About Sartre, we should keep in mind the all pervasive influence of Sartre
> as well. Foucault has more complex relation with Sartre, Hegel and Kant than
> normally thought.
>
> regards
> ali
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Jivko Georgiev <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Foucault and rational choice
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 03:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
>
> This will be short,
> but as far as i am in studiing F. i think one of his
> basic points are that there are system of knowledge,
> power and ethics that pre-exist the indivduals, and
> the individuals are bound to conform to the systems,
> which defines the rules : Thus the individual can not
> choose - the system defines her/his possible choices.
> This is contrary to Sartre. There was lecture by the
> ph.d. from Chicago Uni Thomas Flint. He said F. always
> wanted to be opposed to Sartre. So if we oppose Sartre
> to himself, than we might have Foucault, lol...
>
> Lostantin
> --- Richard Levesque <rlevesqu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > My name is Richard Levesque. I am a PhD
> > student. In my thesis project, I try to integrate
> > and develop Foucault's ideas concerning the
> > productive aspect of power in a rational choice
> > context.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thus far, I have not been able to convince anyone
> > who is knowledgeable of Foucault's work that it is
> > either possible or, for that matter, worthwhile to
> > transpose Foucault's ideas concerning the productive
> > aspect of power in a rational choice context. I
> > explain my lack of success in that regard by the
> > fact that the vast majority of people who know
> > Foucault happen to be rather critical of rational
> > choice theories and, more particularly, of the
> > methodology on which they rely to study social
> > phenomena. Thus far, only economists have displayed
> > an interest in my work and positive comments about
> > it (which has quite surprised me since, at the
> > outset, I thought that it would be the other way
> > around).
> >
> >
> >
> > In a short piece (less than 10 pages long) that is
> > available on my website, I explain how it is
> > possible to integrate Foucault's ideas concerning
> > the productive aspect of power within a rational
> > choice context and, more particularly, I explain how
> > Foucault's views on productive power can be used to
> > study in a whole new way policy processes from a
> > rational choice perspective.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would really appreciate it if some people that
> > have a good knowledge and understanding of Foucault'
> > work would take the time to take a look at it and
> > give me some comments. To see and read it, just
> > click on the following link:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://rideau.carleton.ca/~rlevesqu/introduction.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > I would especially appreciate comments concerning
> > the section (pages 5 to 8) in which I discuss and
> > explain how Foucault conceives power relationships.
> > I want to make sure that I got Foucault right and
> > also that I do not stretch his ideas too far to make
> > them fit in a rational choice context.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard Levesque
> >
> >
> >
> > P.S.: the piece posted on my website is totally
> > different from the one I posted on this list two
> > years ago.
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx