Hello,
The separation I was talking is something Foucault discovered within the
history of philosophy. In his last lecture, after analysing two platonic
texts, Foucault finds out that there are two main tendencies about what whe
call "a philosopher": the one who is a theorist and who can preach what he
don't practice ; and the other one who chose an "aesthetics of existence",
who sees philosophy firstly as a way of life and not as a theory. But in
this case Foucault uses the term "esthétique" in an ethical context
(aesthetics of the self, aesthetics of existence...), and not in a cognitive
or metaphysical context. It referred to the idea of being your own artist
and also your own piece of art. Of course you're free to interpret it the
way you like...
Fore something different, maybe you could be also interested by the first
chapter ot "The order of things", where Foucault describes the visual
experience of Las Meninas painted by Diego Velazquez. I just found an
interesting article on this topic here, but in french:
http://www.sens-public.org/spip.php?article720
++
Jeff.
2010/6/20 Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> Hi Consirération,
>
> While I certainly do appreciate your opinion, and aside from debating what
> Foucault actually thought. I very simply see more in Foucault's work than
> the strict separation between aesthetics in the case of art and the
> metaphysical creation of how the world is represented. I find creativity
> central to both traditional art and the world as representation. One of
> the
> differences I find is that the latter is part of an ideological (I know
> loaded term in regards to Foucault, but right now that is what is coming to
> mind) bind that eludes the perception of it as a creation, the former is
> used to channel creativity in an 'acceptable' manner. The way in which I am
> approaching the topic is through power. Anyways, my goal is not to
> regurgitate Foucault. While I don't think me and him saw the world in the
> same way in regards to this topic, I also don't expect that (that would be
> extremely boring - Foucault and I wouldn't learn anything). I am writing
> this on the fly, but I will certainly give your comments more thought.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Teresa
>
> 2010/6/20 Consirération Inactuelle <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I think that in a foucaldian perspective, aesthetics has certainly
> nothing
> > to do with metaphysical or cognitive problems. It can not have something
> to
> > do with "sense impressions" or the question of consciouseness or how the
> > world is created. When Foucault talks about "aesthetics", he generally
> > designates something like artistic creation, the problem of "style"...
> >
> > In this way, in "Le courage de la vérité" (his last courses at the
> Collège
> > de France, 1984), there is an interesting lecture about the "aesthetics
> of
> > existence" (esthétiques de l'existence) in opposition with the
> > "methaphysics
> > of the soul" (métaphysique de l'âme), when he compares Plato's Alcibiade
> > and
> > Lachès. Explaining that these two points of view were deeply footed in
> the
> > history of occidental thinking, but that the second (metaphysics of the
> > soul) would became dominant in our modernity. But with the cynical
> impulse
> > and its transformations, the aesthetics of life would remain silently, in
> > other forms.
> >
> > In the same lectures, Fouc. also emphasize the importance of some kind of
> > scandalous esthetics of the the cynical life as part of the truth-telling
> > conditions. This tuth-telling being linked with "true life" ("la vraie
> > vie",
> > not to be confused with "real life") and referred to the problem of the
> > "other world" (autre monde), the question of militantism. In this way, he
> > also gives an interesting interpretation of modern art, and its
> subversive
> > function, as some kind of possible anti-platonist and anti-aristotelist
> > cynical vestige that can be found in the subversive function of art, for
> > exemple.
> >
> >
> > 2010/6/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > He wrote alot in the 60's regarding the relations between artworks and
> > > power relations/epistemology. His writings on painting and literature
> > > somewhat fall under this category. He also was in the midst of writing
> > > a substantial book on the connection between painting and politics
> > > with regards to the work of Manet. It was never finished but a few
> > > Tunisian lectures roughly sketching the work of that book have been
> > > published in a new little volume : "Manet and the Object of Painting"
> > > or some such thing. It doesn't get to the crux of what Foucault wanted
> > > to do with Manet but its a start.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Thank you!
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Douglas Olena <doug@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Try the arts of self construction found in "The Politics of Truth",
> > > >> especially in 'What is Enlightenment?' The concept of transgression
> is
> > > >> important and writing as self construction. Try the end of the
> > > >> Rousseau article. Look at self construction as an aesthetic project.
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hello again. It's been a while, but I was wondering if anyone
> knows
> > > >> > if
> > > >> > Foucault wrote anything on the relation between aesthics and
> power?
> > > >> > I am
> > > >> > writing a review on 'The Political Life of Sensation' by Panagia
> and
> > > >> > it
> > > >> > would be a great help if I could add some more depth to my theory
> > with
> > > >> > 'sweet pea's' help. I understand aesthetics to be a broader
> > > >> > conceptual
> > > >> > apparatus, that depending on the relation to which, we construct
> our
> > > >> > relationship towards the world through consciousness's
> > > >> > interpretation of
> > > >> > it (i.e. representation). So, the work doesn't have to
> necessarily
> > > >> > revolve
> > > >> > around the traditional conception of art, but if we could find
> > > >> > something
> > > >> > that plays with it a bit would be absolutely brilliant.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Teresa
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > (319)-512-9318
> > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change
> the
> > > world"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
The separation I was talking is something Foucault discovered within the
history of philosophy. In his last lecture, after analysing two platonic
texts, Foucault finds out that there are two main tendencies about what whe
call "a philosopher": the one who is a theorist and who can preach what he
don't practice ; and the other one who chose an "aesthetics of existence",
who sees philosophy firstly as a way of life and not as a theory. But in
this case Foucault uses the term "esthétique" in an ethical context
(aesthetics of the self, aesthetics of existence...), and not in a cognitive
or metaphysical context. It referred to the idea of being your own artist
and also your own piece of art. Of course you're free to interpret it the
way you like...
Fore something different, maybe you could be also interested by the first
chapter ot "The order of things", where Foucault describes the visual
experience of Las Meninas painted by Diego Velazquez. I just found an
interesting article on this topic here, but in french:
http://www.sens-public.org/spip.php?article720
++
Jeff.
2010/6/20 Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> Hi Consirération,
>
> While I certainly do appreciate your opinion, and aside from debating what
> Foucault actually thought. I very simply see more in Foucault's work than
> the strict separation between aesthetics in the case of art and the
> metaphysical creation of how the world is represented. I find creativity
> central to both traditional art and the world as representation. One of
> the
> differences I find is that the latter is part of an ideological (I know
> loaded term in regards to Foucault, but right now that is what is coming to
> mind) bind that eludes the perception of it as a creation, the former is
> used to channel creativity in an 'acceptable' manner. The way in which I am
> approaching the topic is through power. Anyways, my goal is not to
> regurgitate Foucault. While I don't think me and him saw the world in the
> same way in regards to this topic, I also don't expect that (that would be
> extremely boring - Foucault and I wouldn't learn anything). I am writing
> this on the fly, but I will certainly give your comments more thought.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Teresa
>
> 2010/6/20 Consirération Inactuelle <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I think that in a foucaldian perspective, aesthetics has certainly
> nothing
> > to do with metaphysical or cognitive problems. It can not have something
> to
> > do with "sense impressions" or the question of consciouseness or how the
> > world is created. When Foucault talks about "aesthetics", he generally
> > designates something like artistic creation, the problem of "style"...
> >
> > In this way, in "Le courage de la vérité" (his last courses at the
> Collège
> > de France, 1984), there is an interesting lecture about the "aesthetics
> of
> > existence" (esthétiques de l'existence) in opposition with the
> > "methaphysics
> > of the soul" (métaphysique de l'âme), when he compares Plato's Alcibiade
> > and
> > Lachès. Explaining that these two points of view were deeply footed in
> the
> > history of occidental thinking, but that the second (metaphysics of the
> > soul) would became dominant in our modernity. But with the cynical
> impulse
> > and its transformations, the aesthetics of life would remain silently, in
> > other forms.
> >
> > In the same lectures, Fouc. also emphasize the importance of some kind of
> > scandalous esthetics of the the cynical life as part of the truth-telling
> > conditions. This tuth-telling being linked with "true life" ("la vraie
> > vie",
> > not to be confused with "real life") and referred to the problem of the
> > "other world" (autre monde), the question of militantism. In this way, he
> > also gives an interesting interpretation of modern art, and its
> subversive
> > function, as some kind of possible anti-platonist and anti-aristotelist
> > cynical vestige that can be found in the subversive function of art, for
> > exemple.
> >
> >
> > 2010/6/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > He wrote alot in the 60's regarding the relations between artworks and
> > > power relations/epistemology. His writings on painting and literature
> > > somewhat fall under this category. He also was in the midst of writing
> > > a substantial book on the connection between painting and politics
> > > with regards to the work of Manet. It was never finished but a few
> > > Tunisian lectures roughly sketching the work of that book have been
> > > published in a new little volume : "Manet and the Object of Painting"
> > > or some such thing. It doesn't get to the crux of what Foucault wanted
> > > to do with Manet but its a start.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Thank you!
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Douglas Olena <doug@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Try the arts of self construction found in "The Politics of Truth",
> > > >> especially in 'What is Enlightenment?' The concept of transgression
> is
> > > >> important and writing as self construction. Try the end of the
> > > >> Rousseau article. Look at self construction as an aesthetic project.
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hello again. It's been a while, but I was wondering if anyone
> knows
> > > >> > if
> > > >> > Foucault wrote anything on the relation between aesthics and
> power?
> > > >> > I am
> > > >> > writing a review on 'The Political Life of Sensation' by Panagia
> and
> > > >> > it
> > > >> > would be a great help if I could add some more depth to my theory
> > with
> > > >> > 'sweet pea's' help. I understand aesthetics to be a broader
> > > >> > conceptual
> > > >> > apparatus, that depending on the relation to which, we construct
> our
> > > >> > relationship towards the world through consciousness's
> > > >> > interpretation of
> > > >> > it (i.e. representation). So, the work doesn't have to
> necessarily
> > > >> > revolve
> > > >> > around the traditional conception of art, but if we could find
> > > >> > something
> > > >> > that plays with it a bit would be absolutely brilliant.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Teresa
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > (319)-512-9318
> > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change
> the
> > > world"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>