First of all sorry Jeff - I thought that name was a little weird. Pictures
of parental bombardment were running through my mind. I am definitely prone
to the 'practicing' type of philosophy. I actually don't understand the
point of theory without practice - I very crudely call that "bullshit" and
its a waste of my time and energy. Thank you for clarifying and I do believe
that everyone is an artist and are constantly creating. i will re-read "The
Order of Things" . i will also check out the article - my french isn't
fabulous (right now I am caught between french, german and attic - fun!!!).
Fouad: I do insist on exploring the interconnection between aesthetics and
power. I appreciate your sources, and I always engage seriously with my
topics despite my playful disposition - usually too seriously. I will
definitely approach it as a political inquiry - that would be hard for me
not to do since I believe that every act is a political act. Plus 'easy'
has never been my way, unfortunately.
Wonderful chatting,
Teresa
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> I think that l'inactuel's answer was the most direct response to your query
> about power and aesthetics. If you insist on exploring aesthetics in its
> interconnectedness with power --and not merely in its relation to
> sublimation, creativity, escapism, etc.--you need to pay attention to the Le
> Courage... lecture and to the distinction between a political/transformative
> engagement with existence and a sublimatory/escapist engagement. This is the
> difference between creating another world from a Platonic perspective and
> from a Cynic perspective, for example, as explained in the lectures. There
> is a lot there about how to 'transform' self and world (and thus be
> intricately involved in 'power') and how to create different/other
> discourses and practices (that are not aiming at changing the world,
> although they may change perspectives on the world, etc.). It is a lot more
> complicated than that and needs a serious enaggement with the text--as you
> were invited to do by l'inactuel. Now if you are not interested in this
> approach to power and aesthetics as a tool of analysis, and would prefer to
> work with your own different understanding of aesthetics that is not as
> political, you can use the early texts of Foucault where aesthetics had
> little if anything to do with this understanding of transformative practices
> (his engagement with Blanchot, Roussel, Bataille, Nietzsche, surrealisme,
> ..). There, you can find an easier and more readily acceptable approach to
> aesthetics as resistance and/or a 'tragic' relatedness to (im)possibilities.
> The best compilation in English of selections from this early period can be
> found in the first part of the New Press Essential Works: Aesthetics,
> Method, and Epistemology (1998).
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Fouad Kalouche 1315 College Avenue Reading, PA 19604 (610)929-0007
> fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:38:25 -0400
> > From: teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
> > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Aesthetics and Power
> >
> > Hi Consirération,
> >
> > While I certainly do appreciate your opinion, and aside from debating
> what
> > Foucault actually thought. I very simply see more in Foucault's work than
> > the strict separation between aesthetics in the case of art and the
> > metaphysical creation of how the world is represented. I find creativity
> > central to both traditional art and the world as representation. One of
> the
> > differences I find is that the latter is part of an ideological (I know
> > loaded term in regards to Foucault, but right now that is what is coming
> to
> > mind) bind that eludes the perception of it as a creation, the former is
> > used to channel creativity in an 'acceptable' manner. The way in which I
> am
> > approaching the topic is through power. Anyways, my goal is not to
> > regurgitate Foucault. While I don't think me and him saw the world in the
> > same way in regards to this topic, I also don't expect that (that would
> be
> > extremely boring - Foucault and I wouldn't learn anything). I am writing
> > this on the fly, but I will certainly give your comments more thought.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Teresa
> >
> > 2010/6/20 Consirération Inactuelle <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I think that in a foucaldian perspective, aesthetics has certainly
> nothing
> > > to do with metaphysical or cognitive problems. It can not have
> something to
> > > do with "sense impressions" or the question of consciouseness or how
> the
> > > world is created. When Foucault talks about "aesthetics", he generally
> > > designates something like artistic creation, the problem of "style"...
> > >
> > > In this way, in "Le courage de la vérité" (his last courses at the
> Collège
> > > de France, 1984), there is an interesting lecture about the "aesthetics
> of
> > > existence" (esthétiques de l'existence) in opposition with the
> > > "methaphysics
> > > of the soul" (métaphysique de l'âme), when he compares Plato's
> Alcibiade
> > > and
> > > Lachès. Explaining that these two points of view were deeply footed in
> the
> > > history of occidental thinking, but that the second (metaphysics of the
> > > soul) would became dominant in our modernity. But with the cynical
> impulse
> > > and its transformations, the aesthetics of life would remain silently,
> in
> > > other forms.
> > >
> > > In the same lectures, Fouc. also emphasize the importance of some kind
> of
> > > scandalous esthetics of the the cynical life as part of the
> truth-telling
> > > conditions. This tuth-telling being linked with "true life" ("la vraie
> > > vie",
> > > not to be confused with "real life") and referred to the problem of the
> > > "other world" (autre monde), the question of militantism. In this way,
> he
> > > also gives an interesting interpretation of modern art, and its
> subversive
> > > function, as some kind of possible anti-platonist and anti-aristotelist
> > > cynical vestige that can be found in the subversive function of art,
> for
> > > exemple.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2010/6/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > > > He wrote alot in the 60's regarding the relations between artworks
> and
> > > > power relations/epistemology. His writings on painting and literature
> > > > somewhat fall under this category. He also was in the midst of
> writing
> > > > a substantial book on the connection between painting and politics
> > > > with regards to the work of Manet. It was never finished but a few
> > > > Tunisian lectures roughly sketching the work of that book have been
> > > > published in a new little volume : "Manet and the Object of Painting"
> > > > or some such thing. It doesn't get to the crux of what Foucault
> wanted
> > > > to do with Manet but its a start.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Teresa Mayne <
> teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Thank you!
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Douglas Olena <doug@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Try the arts of self construction found in "The Politics of
> Truth",
> > > > >> especially in 'What is Enlightenment?' The concept of
> transgression is
> > > > >> important and writing as self construction. Try the end of the
> > > > >> Rousseau article. Look at self construction as an aesthetic
> project.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello again. It's been a while, but I was wondering if anyone
> knows
> > > > >> > if
> > > > >> > Foucault wrote anything on the relation between aesthics and
> power?
> > > > >> > I am
> > > > >> > writing a review on 'The Political Life of Sensation' by Panagia
> and
> > > > >> > it
> > > > >> > would be a great help if I could add some more depth to my
> theory
> > > with
> > > > >> > 'sweet pea's' help. I understand aesthetics to be a broader
> > > > >> > conceptual
> > > > >> > apparatus, that depending on the relation to which, we construct
> our
> > > > >> > relationship towards the world through consciousness's
> > > > >> > interpretation of
> > > > >> > it (i.e. representation). So, the work doesn't have to
> necessarily
> > > > >> > revolve
> > > > >> > around the traditional conception of art, but if we could find
> > > > >> > something
> > > > >> > that plays with it a bit would be absolutely brilliant.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Teresa
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > (319)-512-9318
> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change
> the
> > > > world"
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
> Hotmail.
>
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
of parental bombardment were running through my mind. I am definitely prone
to the 'practicing' type of philosophy. I actually don't understand the
point of theory without practice - I very crudely call that "bullshit" and
its a waste of my time and energy. Thank you for clarifying and I do believe
that everyone is an artist and are constantly creating. i will re-read "The
Order of Things" . i will also check out the article - my french isn't
fabulous (right now I am caught between french, german and attic - fun!!!).
Fouad: I do insist on exploring the interconnection between aesthetics and
power. I appreciate your sources, and I always engage seriously with my
topics despite my playful disposition - usually too seriously. I will
definitely approach it as a political inquiry - that would be hard for me
not to do since I believe that every act is a political act. Plus 'easy'
has never been my way, unfortunately.
Wonderful chatting,
Teresa
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> I think that l'inactuel's answer was the most direct response to your query
> about power and aesthetics. If you insist on exploring aesthetics in its
> interconnectedness with power --and not merely in its relation to
> sublimation, creativity, escapism, etc.--you need to pay attention to the Le
> Courage... lecture and to the distinction between a political/transformative
> engagement with existence and a sublimatory/escapist engagement. This is the
> difference between creating another world from a Platonic perspective and
> from a Cynic perspective, for example, as explained in the lectures. There
> is a lot there about how to 'transform' self and world (and thus be
> intricately involved in 'power') and how to create different/other
> discourses and practices (that are not aiming at changing the world,
> although they may change perspectives on the world, etc.). It is a lot more
> complicated than that and needs a serious enaggement with the text--as you
> were invited to do by l'inactuel. Now if you are not interested in this
> approach to power and aesthetics as a tool of analysis, and would prefer to
> work with your own different understanding of aesthetics that is not as
> political, you can use the early texts of Foucault where aesthetics had
> little if anything to do with this understanding of transformative practices
> (his engagement with Blanchot, Roussel, Bataille, Nietzsche, surrealisme,
> ..). There, you can find an easier and more readily acceptable approach to
> aesthetics as resistance and/or a 'tragic' relatedness to (im)possibilities.
> The best compilation in English of selections from this early period can be
> found in the first part of the New Press Essential Works: Aesthetics,
> Method, and Epistemology (1998).
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Fouad Kalouche 1315 College Avenue Reading, PA 19604 (610)929-0007
> fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:38:25 -0400
> > From: teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
> > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Aesthetics and Power
> >
> > Hi Consirération,
> >
> > While I certainly do appreciate your opinion, and aside from debating
> what
> > Foucault actually thought. I very simply see more in Foucault's work than
> > the strict separation between aesthetics in the case of art and the
> > metaphysical creation of how the world is represented. I find creativity
> > central to both traditional art and the world as representation. One of
> the
> > differences I find is that the latter is part of an ideological (I know
> > loaded term in regards to Foucault, but right now that is what is coming
> to
> > mind) bind that eludes the perception of it as a creation, the former is
> > used to channel creativity in an 'acceptable' manner. The way in which I
> am
> > approaching the topic is through power. Anyways, my goal is not to
> > regurgitate Foucault. While I don't think me and him saw the world in the
> > same way in regards to this topic, I also don't expect that (that would
> be
> > extremely boring - Foucault and I wouldn't learn anything). I am writing
> > this on the fly, but I will certainly give your comments more thought.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Teresa
> >
> > 2010/6/20 Consirération Inactuelle <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I think that in a foucaldian perspective, aesthetics has certainly
> nothing
> > > to do with metaphysical or cognitive problems. It can not have
> something to
> > > do with "sense impressions" or the question of consciouseness or how
> the
> > > world is created. When Foucault talks about "aesthetics", he generally
> > > designates something like artistic creation, the problem of "style"...
> > >
> > > In this way, in "Le courage de la vérité" (his last courses at the
> Collège
> > > de France, 1984), there is an interesting lecture about the "aesthetics
> of
> > > existence" (esthétiques de l'existence) in opposition with the
> > > "methaphysics
> > > of the soul" (métaphysique de l'âme), when he compares Plato's
> Alcibiade
> > > and
> > > Lachès. Explaining that these two points of view were deeply footed in
> the
> > > history of occidental thinking, but that the second (metaphysics of the
> > > soul) would became dominant in our modernity. But with the cynical
> impulse
> > > and its transformations, the aesthetics of life would remain silently,
> in
> > > other forms.
> > >
> > > In the same lectures, Fouc. also emphasize the importance of some kind
> of
> > > scandalous esthetics of the the cynical life as part of the
> truth-telling
> > > conditions. This tuth-telling being linked with "true life" ("la vraie
> > > vie",
> > > not to be confused with "real life") and referred to the problem of the
> > > "other world" (autre monde), the question of militantism. In this way,
> he
> > > also gives an interesting interpretation of modern art, and its
> subversive
> > > function, as some kind of possible anti-platonist and anti-aristotelist
> > > cynical vestige that can be found in the subversive function of art,
> for
> > > exemple.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2010/6/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > > > He wrote alot in the 60's regarding the relations between artworks
> and
> > > > power relations/epistemology. His writings on painting and literature
> > > > somewhat fall under this category. He also was in the midst of
> writing
> > > > a substantial book on the connection between painting and politics
> > > > with regards to the work of Manet. It was never finished but a few
> > > > Tunisian lectures roughly sketching the work of that book have been
> > > > published in a new little volume : "Manet and the Object of Painting"
> > > > or some such thing. It doesn't get to the crux of what Foucault
> wanted
> > > > to do with Manet but its a start.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Teresa Mayne <
> teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Thank you!
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Douglas Olena <doug@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Try the arts of self construction found in "The Politics of
> Truth",
> > > > >> especially in 'What is Enlightenment?' The concept of
> transgression is
> > > > >> important and writing as self construction. Try the end of the
> > > > >> Rousseau article. Look at self construction as an aesthetic
> project.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello again. It's been a while, but I was wondering if anyone
> knows
> > > > >> > if
> > > > >> > Foucault wrote anything on the relation between aesthics and
> power?
> > > > >> > I am
> > > > >> > writing a review on 'The Political Life of Sensation' by Panagia
> and
> > > > >> > it
> > > > >> > would be a great help if I could add some more depth to my
> theory
> > > with
> > > > >> > 'sweet pea's' help. I understand aesthetics to be a broader
> > > > >> > conceptual
> > > > >> > apparatus, that depending on the relation to which, we construct
> our
> > > > >> > relationship towards the world through consciousness's
> > > > >> > interpretation of
> > > > >> > it (i.e. representation). So, the work doesn't have to
> necessarily
> > > > >> > revolve
> > > > >> > around the traditional conception of art, but if we could find
> > > > >> > something
> > > > >> > that plays with it a bit would be absolutely brilliant.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Teresa
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > (319)-512-9318
> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change
> the
> > > > world"
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
> Hotmail.
>
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>