Hello,
I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
Foucault, but there is one easy solution to this. Instead of going back and
forth wondering if Foucault was influenced by him in In The Order of Things,
what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with eachother
now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure. If
nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is worth
looking closer at his masks). See what you end up with and how that changes
your perspective on the other - you may find something that you weren't
expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better understanding
someone's perspective.
Good Luck,
Teresa
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Hello
> I really don't think Bergson was a source material for the order of things.
> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and Foucault,
> particularly regarding the order of things where the conceptions of history
> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective. Rather
> for
> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger, Borges...
>
> Jeffrey Tallane
>
> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
>
> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The Order
> of
> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> passages
> > > taken from each of them:
> > >
> > > "All around conceptual thought there remains an indistinct fringe which
> > > recalls its origin."
> > >
> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in which it
> > never
> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> > >
> > > All the best.
> > >
> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with whom
> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not write."
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> > > > also throw
> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> > > > could also
> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> > > > with parallel
> > > > issues.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> > > > before the war.
> > > > >
> > > > > All the best.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> > > > *epistme
> > > > >> *and on the major
> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> > > > you to
> > > > >> kindly identify the
> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> > > > >> Pakistan
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > (319)-512-9318
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> > > > to change the world"
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
Foucault, but there is one easy solution to this. Instead of going back and
forth wondering if Foucault was influenced by him in In The Order of Things,
what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with eachother
now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure. If
nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is worth
looking closer at his masks). See what you end up with and how that changes
your perspective on the other - you may find something that you weren't
expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better understanding
someone's perspective.
Good Luck,
Teresa
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Hello
> I really don't think Bergson was a source material for the order of things.
> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and Foucault,
> particularly regarding the order of things where the conceptions of history
> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective. Rather
> for
> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger, Borges...
>
> Jeffrey Tallane
>
> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
>
> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The Order
> of
> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> passages
> > > taken from each of them:
> > >
> > > "All around conceptual thought there remains an indistinct fringe which
> > > recalls its origin."
> > >
> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in which it
> > never
> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> > >
> > > All the best.
> > >
> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with whom
> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not write."
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> > > > also throw
> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> > > > could also
> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> > > > with parallel
> > > > issues.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> > > > before the war.
> > > > >
> > > > > All the best.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> > > > *epistme
> > > > >> *and on the major
> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> > > > you to
> > > > >> kindly identify the
> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> > > > >> Pakistan
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > (319)-512-9318
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> > > > to change the world"
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>