I can see where you guys are coming from. Although, whether or not his
'philosophy' agrees with that of Bergson is a different question than
whether or not he was influenced by him. For example, when I was younger I
read much of analytic philosophy, particularly Russell and Frege. Now my
work seems to be very different and does not agree with their philosophy,
but I am always in conversation with them on a certain level and so I am
very much influenced and impacted by that school of thought, along with
others. So, would I say I am influenced or impacted by them? Absolutely;
but an outsider wouldn't necessarily get that picture by simply reading my
work.
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 7:51 AM, M. Karskens <mkarskens@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I agree with this comment.
> Foucault never mentions Bergson directely, he
> just drops his name several times, and he did
> not write explicitly on Bergson in contrast with Deleuze.
> However, as all French intellectuals inbetween
> 1930 and 1970 he read Bergson at least in his baccalaureat.
> In my opinion he had not so much affinity wih
> Bergson, cause of his aversion for
> consciousness-philosophy, and Bergson was a heavy user of it.
>
> yours
> machiel karskens
>
>
> At 05:26 17-10-2010, you wrote:
> >The most connection I can draw is that Deleuze and Foucault mutually
> >informed each other during their early phases, and Bergson was a
> >strong influence on Deleuze.
> >
> >On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Chetan Vemuri
> ><aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > That says more about overlap in ideas than it does about any possible
> > > impact of Bergson on Foucault.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Teresa Mayne
> > <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
> > >> Foucault, but there is one easy solution to
> > this. Instead of going back and
> > >> forth wondering if Foucault was influenced
> > by him in In The Order of Things,
> > >> what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with
> eachother
> > >> now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure.
> If
> > >> nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is
> worth
> > >> looking closer at his masks). See what you
> > end up with and how that changes
> > >> your perspective on the other - you may find something that you
> weren't
> > >> expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better
> understanding
> > >> someone's perspective.
> > >>
> > >> Good Luck,
> > >>
> > >> Teresa
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey
> > Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello
> > >>> I really don't think Bergson was a source
> > material for the order of things.
> > >>> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and
> Foucault,
> > >>> particularly regarding the order of things
> > where the conceptions of history
> > >>> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective.
> Rather
> > >>> for
> > >>> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger,
> Borges...
> > >>>
> > >>> Jeffrey Tallane
> > >>>
> > >>> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
> > >>>
> > >>> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <
> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > >wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The
> Order
> > >>> of
> > >>> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> > >>> passages
> > >>> > > taken from each of them:
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > "All around conceptual thought there
> > remains an indistinct fringe which
> > >>> > > recalls its origin."
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in which
> it
> > >>> > never
> > >>> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > All the best.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with
> whom
> > >>> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not write."
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> > >>> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> > >>> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> > >>> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> > >>> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> > >>> > > > also throw
> > >>> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> > >>> > > > could also
> > >>> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> > >>> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> > >>> > > > with parallel
> > >>> > > > issues.
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> > >>> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > > wrote:
> > >>> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> > >>> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> > >>> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> > >>> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> > >>> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> > >>> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> > >>> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> > >>> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> > >>> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> > >>> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> > >>> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> > >>> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> > >>> > > > before the war.
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > > All the best.
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <
> zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > wrote:
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> > >>> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> > >>> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> > >>> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> > >>> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> > >>> > > > *epistme
> > >>> > > > >> *and on the major
> > >>> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> > >>> > > > you to
> > >>> > > > >> kindly identify the
> > >>> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> > >>> > > > >>
> > >>> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> > >>> > > > >> Pakistan
> > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> > > > >>
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > --
> > >>> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> > >>> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> > >>> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > > > (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> > >>> > > > to change the world"
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > --
> > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> >
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > (319)-512-9318
> > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you
> > know, we all want to change the world"
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Chetan Vemuri
> >West Des Moines, IA
> >aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >(319)-512-9318
> >"You say you want a Revolution! Well you know,
> >we all want to change the world"
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
>
>
> Prof. Machiel Karskens
> social and political philosophy
> Faculty of Philosophy
> Radboud University Nijmegen - The Netherlands
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
'philosophy' agrees with that of Bergson is a different question than
whether or not he was influenced by him. For example, when I was younger I
read much of analytic philosophy, particularly Russell and Frege. Now my
work seems to be very different and does not agree with their philosophy,
but I am always in conversation with them on a certain level and so I am
very much influenced and impacted by that school of thought, along with
others. So, would I say I am influenced or impacted by them? Absolutely;
but an outsider wouldn't necessarily get that picture by simply reading my
work.
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 7:51 AM, M. Karskens <mkarskens@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I agree with this comment.
> Foucault never mentions Bergson directely, he
> just drops his name several times, and he did
> not write explicitly on Bergson in contrast with Deleuze.
> However, as all French intellectuals inbetween
> 1930 and 1970 he read Bergson at least in his baccalaureat.
> In my opinion he had not so much affinity wih
> Bergson, cause of his aversion for
> consciousness-philosophy, and Bergson was a heavy user of it.
>
> yours
> machiel karskens
>
>
> At 05:26 17-10-2010, you wrote:
> >The most connection I can draw is that Deleuze and Foucault mutually
> >informed each other during their early phases, and Bergson was a
> >strong influence on Deleuze.
> >
> >On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Chetan Vemuri
> ><aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > That says more about overlap in ideas than it does about any possible
> > > impact of Bergson on Foucault.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Teresa Mayne
> > <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
> > >> Foucault, but there is one easy solution to
> > this. Instead of going back and
> > >> forth wondering if Foucault was influenced
> > by him in In The Order of Things,
> > >> what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with
> eachother
> > >> now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure.
> If
> > >> nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is
> worth
> > >> looking closer at his masks). See what you
> > end up with and how that changes
> > >> your perspective on the other - you may find something that you
> weren't
> > >> expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better
> understanding
> > >> someone's perspective.
> > >>
> > >> Good Luck,
> > >>
> > >> Teresa
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey
> > Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello
> > >>> I really don't think Bergson was a source
> > material for the order of things.
> > >>> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and
> Foucault,
> > >>> particularly regarding the order of things
> > where the conceptions of history
> > >>> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective.
> Rather
> > >>> for
> > >>> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger,
> Borges...
> > >>>
> > >>> Jeffrey Tallane
> > >>>
> > >>> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
> > >>>
> > >>> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <
> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > >wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The
> Order
> > >>> of
> > >>> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> > >>> passages
> > >>> > > taken from each of them:
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > "All around conceptual thought there
> > remains an indistinct fringe which
> > >>> > > recalls its origin."
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in which
> it
> > >>> > never
> > >>> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > All the best.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with
> whom
> > >>> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not write."
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> > >>> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> > >>> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> > >>> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> > >>> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> > >>> > > > also throw
> > >>> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> > >>> > > > could also
> > >>> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> > >>> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> > >>> > > > with parallel
> > >>> > > > issues.
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> > >>> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > > wrote:
> > >>> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> > >>> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> > >>> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> > >>> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> > >>> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> > >>> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> > >>> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> > >>> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> > >>> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> > >>> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> > >>> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> > >>> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> > >>> > > > before the war.
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > > All the best.
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <
> zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > wrote:
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> > >>> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> > >>> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> > >>> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> > >>> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> > >>> > > > *epistme
> > >>> > > > >> *and on the major
> > >>> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> > >>> > > > you to
> > >>> > > > >> kindly identify the
> > >>> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> > >>> > > > >>
> > >>> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> > >>> > > > >> Pakistan
> > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> > > > >>
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> > > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > --
> > >>> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> > >>> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> > >>> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>> > > > (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> > >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> > >>> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> > >>> > > > to change the world"
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> > > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > --
> > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>> >
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chetan Vemuri
> > > West Des Moines, IA
> > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > > (319)-512-9318
> > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you
> > know, we all want to change the world"
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Chetan Vemuri
> >West Des Moines, IA
> >aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >(319)-512-9318
> >"You say you want a Revolution! Well you know,
> >we all want to change the world"
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
>
>
> Prof. Machiel Karskens
> social and political philosophy
> Faculty of Philosophy
> Radboud University Nijmegen - The Netherlands
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>