I'm aware of his critique of ideology and why he made it. What I'm
interested in is how to evaluate it in a world where 'ideology is
dead' according to many "ideologues" and much of leftist criticism
relies on the notion of ideology. I guess I'm asking how one could
justify it within a leftist space without falling into
liberal-capitalist discourse about "the end of ideology".
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:01 AM, Nathaniel Roberts <npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> By pure chance I just re-read the very passage Kevin refers to. In it
> Foucault also outlines very briefly what he sees as lacking about ideology
> as an analytical tool. I don't have my papers with me, but I'm 90% sure it
> was in Power/Knowledge and more specifically in the interview called
> something like "Knowledge and Power." The passage, I think, comes towards
> the end.
> Nate
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> I find it really interesting this desire to neutralise the radicality of
>> Foucault and return him to the (academic) fold.
>> As far as I can see, Foucault became highly critical of the notion of
>> ideology. And rather than building upon it he stated at one point, I forget
>> where, that he had no use for this notion, unlike that of repression, which
>> he found much harder to shakle off.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kevin.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:03:40 -0500
>> > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >
>> > Sorry, I do not understand the relation you are alluding to.
>> >
>> > F. Is expanding and transforming the concept of ideology to encompass
>> > cultural, political, economic, social and other domains of historical
>> > production, where ontology englobes epistemology.
>> >
>> > Arguably, he is being more Marxian than the early Marx of the German
>> > Ideology by revisiting how Marxian "production" takes place in a an
>> > ontology of multiplicity and becoming instead of relying on a
>> > teleological and linear and determined view of development with beginning
>> > and end. This is what transformation is.
>> >
>> > F.
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:49:44 -0600
>> >> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>
>> >> Fouad how would you distinguish this from the "end of ideology" thesis
>> >> popular in neoconservative and liberal circles.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Foucault addresses Marxian approaches to ideology most directly in
>> >>> Truth and Juridical forms, in 1975, and this is the first moment of his
>> >>> engagement with a genealogy of truth in forms of testing, inquiry, and
>> >>> experimentation--where truth relations are proven to be part of the
>> >>> fabric of historical Ontologies and not just produced by modes of
>> >>> production.
>> >>>
>> >>> A second moment of the study of regimes of truth as forms of
>> >>> veridiction engaged in subjectivization starts with the 1980 college de
>> >>> France course (subjectivite et verite) and ends with the 1984 course
>> >>> (courage de la verite) and this moment shapes the later published
>> >>> ,works of F. (History of sexuality, etc.).
>> >>>
>> >>> These are just the primary sources. Someone will surely help out with
>> >>> secondary sources.
>> >>>
>> >>> Best,
>> >>>
>> >>> Fouad Kalouche
>> >>>
>> >>> P.s. does anyone know anything about the Genet and Sade paper that
>> >>> Foucault supposedly destroyed upon his return from Sweden? Anything
>> >>> written about the subject?
>> >>>
>> >>>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:05:08 -0600
>> >>>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>>>
>> >>>> An old friend gave me three copies of Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>>> issues from the late 70's and early 80's. There are essays in there by
>> >>>> Nikolas Rose, Jacques Donzelot, and Castel (I think). An early version
>> >>>> of Foucault's famous "Governmentality" lecture is in one of them as
>> >>>> well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> Does anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of copies of the
>> >>>>> journal "Ideology and Consciousness," preferably as scanned pdfs.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best, Kevin.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: goran.gaber@xxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>> Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:26:37 +0100
>> >>>>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>> Subject: [Foucault-L] Regimes of truth
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm looking for Foucault's own clarifications on the concept "regime
>> >>>>>> de
>> >>>>>> verite" as well as any other secondary sources on this matter -
>> >>>>>> would be
>> >>>>>> very grateful for bibliography indications.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best, Goran
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>> >>>>> Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
>> >>>>> TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Chathan Vemuri
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 900 58th Street
>> >>>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> >>>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> (319)-512-9318
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Chathan Vemuri
>> >>
>> >> 900 58th Street
>> >> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> >> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> (319)-512-9318
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Share photos & screenshots in seconds...
>> TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1
>> Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Nathaniel Roberts<http://www.mmg.mpg.de/departments/religious-diversity/scientific-staff/dr-nathaniel-roberts/>
> Max Planck Institute for the Study of Religious and Ethnic Diversity
> Herman-Föge-Weg 11
> 37073 Göttingen
> Germany
> +49 (0) 551-4956-0
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Chathan Vemuri
900 58th Street
West Des Moines, IA 50266
chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
(319)-512-9318
interested in is how to evaluate it in a world where 'ideology is
dead' according to many "ideologues" and much of leftist criticism
relies on the notion of ideology. I guess I'm asking how one could
justify it within a leftist space without falling into
liberal-capitalist discourse about "the end of ideology".
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:01 AM, Nathaniel Roberts <npr4@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> By pure chance I just re-read the very passage Kevin refers to. In it
> Foucault also outlines very briefly what he sees as lacking about ideology
> as an analytical tool. I don't have my papers with me, but I'm 90% sure it
> was in Power/Knowledge and more specifically in the interview called
> something like "Knowledge and Power." The passage, I think, comes towards
> the end.
> Nate
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> I find it really interesting this desire to neutralise the radicality of
>> Foucault and return him to the (academic) fold.
>> As far as I can see, Foucault became highly critical of the notion of
>> ideology. And rather than building upon it he stated at one point, I forget
>> where, that he had no use for this notion, unlike that of repression, which
>> he found much harder to shakle off.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kevin.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:03:40 -0500
>> > To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >
>> > Sorry, I do not understand the relation you are alluding to.
>> >
>> > F. Is expanding and transforming the concept of ideology to encompass
>> > cultural, political, economic, social and other domains of historical
>> > production, where ontology englobes epistemology.
>> >
>> > Arguably, he is being more Marxian than the early Marx of the German
>> > Ideology by revisiting how Marxian "production" takes place in a an
>> > ontology of multiplicity and becoming instead of relying on a
>> > teleological and linear and determined view of development with beginning
>> > and end. This is what transformation is.
>> >
>> > F.
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:49:44 -0600
>> >> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>
>> >> Fouad how would you distinguish this from the "end of ideology" thesis
>> >> popular in neoconservative and liberal circles.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Foucault addresses Marxian approaches to ideology most directly in
>> >>> Truth and Juridical forms, in 1975, and this is the first moment of his
>> >>> engagement with a genealogy of truth in forms of testing, inquiry, and
>> >>> experimentation--where truth relations are proven to be part of the
>> >>> fabric of historical Ontologies and not just produced by modes of
>> >>> production.
>> >>>
>> >>> A second moment of the study of regimes of truth as forms of
>> >>> veridiction engaged in subjectivization starts with the 1980 college de
>> >>> France course (subjectivite et verite) and ends with the 1984 course
>> >>> (courage de la verite) and this moment shapes the later published
>> >>> ,works of F. (History of sexuality, etc.).
>> >>>
>> >>> These are just the primary sources. Someone will surely help out with
>> >>> secondary sources.
>> >>>
>> >>> Best,
>> >>>
>> >>> Fouad Kalouche
>> >>>
>> >>> P.s. does anyone know anything about the Genet and Sade paper that
>> >>> Foucault supposedly destroyed upon his return from Sweden? Anything
>> >>> written about the subject?
>> >>>
>> >>>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:05:08 -0600
>> >>>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>>>
>> >>>> An old friend gave me three copies of Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>>> issues from the late 70's and early 80's. There are essays in there by
>> >>>> Nikolas Rose, Jacques Donzelot, and Castel (I think). An early version
>> >>>> of Foucault's famous "Governmentality" lecture is in one of them as
>> >>>> well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> Does anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of copies of the
>> >>>>> journal "Ideology and Consciousness," preferably as scanned pdfs.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best, Kevin.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: goran.gaber@xxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>> Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:26:37 +0100
>> >>>>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>> Subject: [Foucault-L] Regimes of truth
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm looking for Foucault's own clarifications on the concept "regime
>> >>>>>> de
>> >>>>>> verite" as well as any other secondary sources on this matter -
>> >>>>>> would be
>> >>>>>> very grateful for bibliography indications.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best, Goran
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>> >>>>> Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
>> >>>>> TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Chathan Vemuri
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 900 58th Street
>> >>>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> >>>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> (319)-512-9318
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Chathan Vemuri
>> >>
>> >> 900 58th Street
>> >> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> >> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> (319)-512-9318
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Share photos & screenshots in seconds...
>> TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1
>> Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Nathaniel Roberts<http://www.mmg.mpg.de/departments/religious-diversity/scientific-staff/dr-nathaniel-roberts/>
> Max Planck Institute for the Study of Religious and Ethnic Diversity
> Herman-Föge-Weg 11
> 37073 Göttingen
> Germany
> +49 (0) 551-4956-0
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Chathan Vemuri
900 58th Street
West Des Moines, IA 50266
chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
(319)-512-9318