Jivko:
You seem to have committed an odd variation of the genetic fallacy --
because something originates in X ("the west") it belongs essentially to
that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be essentially Arabic. Since you
admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how does it remain an
exclusively "western" property?
I do not understand your question about what Foucault "had in common with
nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a nationalist, and one can
recognize the importance of nationalism (among other power formations)
without either affirming its value, its universality or its supreme
importance.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: nationalism and the human being
> China addopted a western invention - the communsim-
> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about it
> in a collection called "The postmodern explained for
> children". The communism is cultivating nationalism
> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia). I
> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody else.
> The west sais, that the opposite of the nationalism is
> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we know
> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the man
> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me again
> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> nationalism?
>
> Jivko
> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Jivko:
> >
> > You are seriously claiming that there is no Japanese
> > or Chinese nationalism?
> > Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
> > combination of both? Whether
> > nationalism is a useful concept requires close
> > attention to particular
> > settings. I do not see how anyone could use these
> > global generalizations
> > about "the west" to understand anything.
> >
> > Larry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
> > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> >
> >
> > > I repeat: the nationalism concern only the western
> > > world. To the rest of the world it is irrelevant.
> > > Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant issue,
> > and
> > > he avoided it.
> > >
> > > Zhivko
> > > --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached this
> > > > question. I wonder if a way
> > > > to connect Foucault's work in this discussion
> > about
> > > > nationalism is to
> > > > identify some of the discourses that have gone
> > into
> > > > the nationalism
> > > > literature. Much of what I have read has been
> > > > structuralist or humanist
> > > > explanations, ways of reasoning that Foucault
> > was
> > > > avoiding. I am trying to
> > > > use the concept of governmentality to ask what
> > kinds
> > > > of national imaginaries
> > > > have informed U.S. education sciences, so in a
> > way I
> > > > am using Foucault's
> > > > concepts rather than concepts of nationalism,
> > but my
> > > > interests intersect
> > > > with the question of nationalism. Perhaps this
> > > > worsens the understanding.
> > > > I hope not.
> > > >
> > > > Lisa
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jivko Georgiev
> > > > [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
> > > > To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > If you can't see how biopower relates to
> > > > > nationalism, I don't know what to
> > > > > tell you.
> > > > >
> > > > neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
> > > > honestly.
> > > > The nationalism was a question foucault never
> > cared
> > > > about. But my research showed me that "ethnic
> > > > cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on the
> > > > first
> > > > page of every western newspapper and magazin.
> > And i
> > > > say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
> > guys?
> > > > Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
> > which
> > > > the
> > > > national borders doesnt exist anymore, and in
> > which
> > > > everyone is nomore of his own race, this world
> > has
> > > > as
> > > > a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
> > cleansing -
> > > > this western world is forcing, through the help
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > weapon, the other world to confest that he, the
> > > > biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he is
> > doing
> > > > the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of the
> > world
> > > > doesnt know what that means. Isnt that crazy?
> > > >
> > > > Assertion of rights and authorship? How
> > Foucauldian
> > > > > is this?
> > > > How?
> > > >
> > > > Regards!
> > > > Jivko
> > > > --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > >===== Original Message From
> > > > > foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
> > > > > >Calm down.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of us are calm when writing this.
> > > > >
> > > > > >Let me most of all say, that Michel Foucault
> > has
> > > > > >never, absolutely never dealed with any
> > questions
> > > > > of
> > > > > >nation, nationalism and so on ,these were
> > never
> > > > > among
> > > > > >his problems. never.
> > > > >
> > > > > >I am of a nationality, which has suffered for
> > 500
> > > > > >years under the turkish tirany, so i have the
> > > > right
> > > > > to
> > > > > >say whatever i want about the arabs. they are
> > > > > always a
> > > > > >trouble.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >"... Goodness,
> > > > >
> > > > > Nathan
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Nathan Widder
> > > > > Lecturer in Political Theory
> > > > > University of Exeter
> > > > > Department of Politics
> > > > > Amory Building
> > > > > Rennes Drive
> > > > > Exeter EX4 4RJ
> > > > > United Kingdom
> > > > > Tel: +44 (0)1392 263 183
> > > > > Fax: +44 (0)1392 263 305
> > > > >
> > http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/politics/staff/widder/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo!
> > Mail
> > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
You seem to have committed an odd variation of the genetic fallacy --
because something originates in X ("the west") it belongs essentially to
that thing. On this reasoning "zero" would be essentially Arabic. Since you
admit that China (Japan?) adopted nationalism, how does it remain an
exclusively "western" property?
I do not understand your question about what Foucault "had in common with
nationalism." No one has claimed that he was a nationalist, and one can
recognize the importance of nationalism (among other power formations)
without either affirming its value, its universality or its supreme
importance.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: nationalism and the human being
> China addopted a western invention - the communsim-
> and thus became nationalistic. Most of those, who
> investigate the communism, sais there is loads of
> nationalism in its structure: Lyotard wrote about it
> in a collection called "The postmodern explained for
> children". The communism is cultivating nationalism
> and then exploits it ( for example - Yougoslavia). I
> wanted to show you that the nationalism, which the
> west sees in every country in the world, is only a
> notion, which belongs to the west and to nobody else.
> The west sais, that the opposite of the nationalism is
> "the humanity" - as we know from our friend Michel
> Foucault "the humanity" is nonsense. But as we know
> "the humanity" is nowadays used as a juridic tool
> against "the nationalism"( see - Milosevic, the man
> who did crime against "the humanity") So tell me again
> please, what did Foucault had in common with the
> nationalism?
>
> Jivko
> --- Larry Chappell <larchap@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Jivko:
> >
> > You are seriously claiming that there is no Japanese
> > or Chinese nationalism?
> > Is Russia "western" or "non-western" or some
> > combination of both? Whether
> > nationalism is a useful concept requires close
> > attention to particular
> > settings. I do not see how anyone could use these
> > global generalizations
> > about "the west" to understand anything.
> >
> > Larry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jivko Georgiev" <jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:27 PM
> > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> >
> >
> > > I repeat: the nationalism concern only the western
> > > world. To the rest of the world it is irrelevant.
> > > Michel Foucault knew it is a unimportenant issue,
> > and
> > > he avoided it.
> > >
> > > Zhivko
> > > --- "Hennon, Lisa" <hennon@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > I appreciate how Stuart Eldon approached this
> > > > question. I wonder if a way
> > > > to connect Foucault's work in this discussion
> > about
> > > > nationalism is to
> > > > identify some of the discourses that have gone
> > into
> > > > the nationalism
> > > > literature. Much of what I have read has been
> > > > structuralist or humanist
> > > > explanations, ways of reasoning that Foucault
> > was
> > > > avoiding. I am trying to
> > > > use the concept of governmentality to ask what
> > kinds
> > > > of national imaginaries
> > > > have informed U.S. education sciences, so in a
> > way I
> > > > am using Foucault's
> > > > concepts rather than concepts of nationalism,
> > but my
> > > > interests intersect
> > > > with the question of nationalism. Perhaps this
> > > > worsens the understanding.
> > > > I hope not.
> > > >
> > > > Lisa
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jivko Georgiev
> > > > [mailto:jivkox43georgiev@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:31 AM
> > > > To: foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: RE: arabs ana hanums
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > If you can't see how biopower relates to
> > > > > nationalism, I don't know what to
> > > > > tell you.
> > > > >
> > > > neither do i, sorry. I cant see such thing,
> > > > honestly.
> > > > The nationalism was a question foucault never
> > cared
> > > > about. But my research showed me that "ethnic
> > > > cleansing, nationalism, bla, bla, bla" is on the
> > > > first
> > > > page of every western newspapper and magazin.
> > And i
> > > > say to myself : wow!! whats wrong with these
> > guys?
> > > > Than i figure out a paradox: the world, for
> > which
> > > > the
> > > > national borders doesnt exist anymore, and in
> > which
> > > > everyone is nomore of his own race, this world
> > has
> > > > as
> > > > a main issue the nationalism and ethnic
> > cleansing -
> > > > this western world is forcing, through the help
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > weapon, the other world to confest that he, the
> > > > biggest part of the world, is a Nazi and he is
> > doing
> > > > the ethnic cleansing, when in fact most of the
> > world
> > > > doesnt know what that means. Isnt that crazy?
> > > >
> > > > Assertion of rights and authorship? How
> > Foucauldian
> > > > > is this?
> > > > How?
> > > >
> > > > Regards!
> > > > Jivko
> > > > --- newidder <N.E.Widder@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > >===== Original Message From
> > > > > foucault@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =====
> > > > > >Calm down.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of us are calm when writing this.
> > > > >
> > > > > >Let me most of all say, that Michel Foucault
> > has
> > > > > >never, absolutely never dealed with any
> > questions
> > > > > of
> > > > > >nation, nationalism and so on ,these were
> > never
> > > > > among
> > > > > >his problems. never.
> > > > >
> > > > > >I am of a nationality, which has suffered for
> > 500
> > > > > >years under the turkish tirany, so i have the
> > > > right
> > > > > to
> > > > > >say whatever i want about the arabs. they are
> > > > > always a
> > > > > >trouble.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >"... Goodness,
> > > > >
> > > > > Nathan
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Nathan Widder
> > > > > Lecturer in Political Theory
> > > > > University of Exeter
> > > > > Department of Politics
> > > > > Amory Building
> > > > > Rennes Drive
> > > > > Exeter EX4 4RJ
> > > > > United Kingdom
> > > > > Tel: +44 (0)1392 263 183
> > > > > Fax: +44 (0)1392 263 305
> > > > >
> > http://www.ex.ac.uk/shipss/politics/staff/widder/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo!
> > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>