I think you answered the question well. I was inquiring how to
distinguish a Foucaultian critique of the concept from the more
popular notion of a End of ideology common in liberal discourse and
critiqued for it's "postmodern depoliticizing tendencies" in leftist
literature by Zizek, et al. Foucault's name tends to come up in these
polemics. Your discussion has made it clear that Foucault's critique
involves not the advocacy of a linear political evolution with an
endpoint (shared between Fukuyama and certain historical materialists)
but a critique of how we must engage in political criticism in the
first place. As I should have known, such criticism does not foreclose
on radical alternatives to free market-based democracies but opens up
the conceptual space to allow for more discussion that can lead to
their theorization. The questions remains, for some, as to how
revolution can be accounted for in this schema. What's implied in this
critique is the question whether a focus on "multiplicity" and
"specific power relationships and discourses" inadvertently
legitimizes a system-based reformism, as revolution is no longer a
teleological must.
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Sorry, I do not understand the relation you are alluding to.
>
> F. Is expanding and transforming the concept of ideology to encompass cultural, political, economic, social and other domains of historical production, where ontology englobes epistemology.
>
> Arguably, he is being more Marxian than the early Marx of the German Ideology by revisiting how Marxian "production" takes place in a an ontology of multiplicity and becoming instead of relying on a teleological and linear and determined view of development with beginning and end. This is what transformation is.
>
> F.
>
>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:49:44 -0600
>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>>
>> Fouad how would you distinguish this from the "end of ideology" thesis
>> popular in neoconservative and liberal circles.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Foucault addresses Marxian approaches to ideology most directly in Truth and Juridical forms, in 1975, and this is the first moment of his engagement with a genealogy of truth in forms of testing, inquiry, and experimentation--where truth relations are proven to be part of the fabric of historical Ontologies and not just produced by modes of production.
>> >
>> > A second moment of the study of regimes of truth as forms of veridiction engaged in subjectivization starts with the 1980 college de France course (subjectivite et verite) and ends with the 1984 course (courage de la verite) and this moment shapes the later published ,works of F. (History of sexuality, etc.).
>> >
>> > These are just the primary sources. Someone will surely help out with secondary sources.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Fouad Kalouche
>> >
>> > P.s. does anyone know anything about the Genet and Sade paper that Foucault supposedly destroyed upon his return from Sweden? Anything written about the subject?
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:05:08 -0600
>> >> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>
>> >> An old friend gave me three copies of Ideology and Consciousness
>> >> issues from the late 70's and early 80's. There are essays in there by
>> >> Nikolas Rose, Jacques Donzelot, and Castel (I think). An early version
>> >> of Foucault's famous "Governmentality" lecture is in one of them as
>> >> well.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> > Does anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of copies of the journal "Ideology and Consciousness," preferably as scanned pdfs.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best, Kevin.
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: goran.gaber@xxxxxxxx
>> >> >> Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:26:37 +0100
>> >> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> Subject: [Foucault-L] Regimes of truth
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hello,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm looking for Foucault's own clarifications on the concept "regime de
>> >> >> verite" as well as any other secondary sources on this matter - would be
>> >> >> very grateful for bibliography indications.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best, Goran
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >> >
>> >> > ____________________________________________________________
>> >> > Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
>> >> > TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Chathan Vemuri
>> >>
>> >> 900 58th Street
>> >> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> >> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> (319)-512-9318
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chathan Vemuri
>>
>> 900 58th Street
>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> (319)-512-9318
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Chathan Vemuri
900 58th Street
West Des Moines, IA 50266
chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
(319)-512-9318
distinguish a Foucaultian critique of the concept from the more
popular notion of a End of ideology common in liberal discourse and
critiqued for it's "postmodern depoliticizing tendencies" in leftist
literature by Zizek, et al. Foucault's name tends to come up in these
polemics. Your discussion has made it clear that Foucault's critique
involves not the advocacy of a linear political evolution with an
endpoint (shared between Fukuyama and certain historical materialists)
but a critique of how we must engage in political criticism in the
first place. As I should have known, such criticism does not foreclose
on radical alternatives to free market-based democracies but opens up
the conceptual space to allow for more discussion that can lead to
their theorization. The questions remains, for some, as to how
revolution can be accounted for in this schema. What's implied in this
critique is the question whether a focus on "multiplicity" and
"specific power relationships and discourses" inadvertently
legitimizes a system-based reformism, as revolution is no longer a
teleological must.
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Sorry, I do not understand the relation you are alluding to.
>
> F. Is expanding and transforming the concept of ideology to encompass cultural, political, economic, social and other domains of historical production, where ontology englobes epistemology.
>
> Arguably, he is being more Marxian than the early Marx of the German Ideology by revisiting how Marxian "production" takes place in a an ontology of multiplicity and becoming instead of relying on a teleological and linear and determined view of development with beginning and end. This is what transformation is.
>
> F.
>
>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:49:44 -0600
>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>>
>> Fouad how would you distinguish this from the "end of ideology" thesis
>> popular in neoconservative and liberal circles.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Foucault addresses Marxian approaches to ideology most directly in Truth and Juridical forms, in 1975, and this is the first moment of his engagement with a genealogy of truth in forms of testing, inquiry, and experimentation--where truth relations are proven to be part of the fabric of historical Ontologies and not just produced by modes of production.
>> >
>> > A second moment of the study of regimes of truth as forms of veridiction engaged in subjectivization starts with the 1980 college de France course (subjectivite et verite) and ends with the 1984 course (courage de la verite) and this moment shapes the later published ,works of F. (History of sexuality, etc.).
>> >
>> > These are just the primary sources. Someone will surely help out with secondary sources.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Fouad Kalouche
>> >
>> > P.s. does anyone know anything about the Genet and Sade paper that Foucault supposedly destroyed upon his return from Sweden? Anything written about the subject?
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:05:08 -0600
>> >> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>> >>
>> >> An old friend gave me three copies of Ideology and Consciousness
>> >> issues from the late 70's and early 80's. There are essays in there by
>> >> Nikolas Rose, Jacques Donzelot, and Castel (I think). An early version
>> >> of Foucault's famous "Governmentality" lecture is in one of them as
>> >> well.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> > Does anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of copies of the journal "Ideology and Consciousness," preferably as scanned pdfs.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best, Kevin.
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: goran.gaber@xxxxxxxx
>> >> >> Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:26:37 +0100
>> >> >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> Subject: [Foucault-L] Regimes of truth
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hello,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm looking for Foucault's own clarifications on the concept "regime de
>> >> >> verite" as well as any other secondary sources on this matter - would be
>> >> >> very grateful for bibliography indications.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best, Goran
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >> >
>> >> > ____________________________________________________________
>> >> > Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
>> >> > TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Foucault-L mailing list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Chathan Vemuri
>> >>
>> >> 900 58th Street
>> >> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> >> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> (319)-512-9318
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Foucault-L mailing list
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chathan Vemuri
>>
>> 900 58th Street
>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> (319)-512-9318
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
--
Chathan Vemuri
900 58th Street
West Des Moines, IA 50266
chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
(319)-512-9318