I would agree with Fouad's point below
The 'camera obscura' metaphor in GI is not Marxian per se. It is very much based in Feuerbach's sensualist critique of religion. It is also the furthest point from Foucault on this score.
There are quite a few different understandings of 'ideology' in Marx (and Marxism). Foucault's work (at least from Discipline & Punish through to the '80s) is close to aspects of Althusser's theory of ideology, especially the materiality of ideology aspect. In Deleuze's reading of Foucault it is perhaps even closer, as Warren Montag pointed out in his old essay on Althusser and Foucault.
On 09/02/2012, at 9:33 AM, Fouad Kalouche wrote:
> Sorry, I do not understand the relation you are alluding to.
>
> F. Is expanding and transforming the concept of ideology to encompass cultural, political, economic, social and other domains of historical production, where ontology englobes epistemology.
>
> Arguably, he is being more Marxian than the early Marx of the German Ideology by revisiting how Marxian "production" takes place in a an ontology of multiplicity and becoming instead of relying on a teleological and linear and determined view of development with beginning and end. This is what transformation is.
>
> F.
>
>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:49:44 -0600
>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>>
>> Fouad how would you distinguish this from the "end of ideology" thesis
>> popular in neoconservative and liberal circles.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Foucault addresses Marxian approaches to ideology most directly in Truth and Juridical forms, in 1975, and this is the first moment of his engagement with a genealogy of truth in forms of testing, inquiry, and experimentation--where truth relations are proven to be part of the fabric of historical Ontologies and not just produced by modes of production.
>>>
>>> A second moment of the study of regimes of truth as forms of veridiction engaged in subjectivization starts with the 1980 college de France course (subjectivite et verite) and ends with the 1984 course (courage de la verite) and this moment shapes the later published ,works of F. (History of sexuality, etc.).
>>>
>>> These are just the primary sources. Someone will surely help out with secondary sources.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Fouad Kalouche
>>>
>>> P.s. does anyone know anything about the Genet and Sade paper that Foucault supposedly destroyed upon his return from Sweden? Anything written about the subject?
>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:05:08 -0600
>>>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>>>>
>>>> An old friend gave me three copies of Ideology and Consciousness
>>>> issues from the late 70's and early 80's. There are essays in there by
>>>> Nikolas Rose, Jacques Donzelot, and Castel (I think). An early version
>>>> of Foucault's famous "Governmentality" lecture is in one of them as
>>>> well.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> Does anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of copies of the journal "Ideology and Consciousness," preferably as scanned pdfs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best, Kevin.
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: goran.gaber@xxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:26:37 +0100
>>>>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [Foucault-L] Regimes of truth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking for Foucault's own clarifications on the concept "regime de
>>>>>> verite" as well as any other secondary sources on this matter - would be
>>>>>> very grateful for bibliography indications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best, Goran
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
>>>>> TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chathan Vemuri
>>>>
>>>> 900 58th Street
>>>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>>>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> (319)-512-9318
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chathan Vemuri
>>
>> 900 58th Street
>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> (319)-512-9318
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
The 'camera obscura' metaphor in GI is not Marxian per se. It is very much based in Feuerbach's sensualist critique of religion. It is also the furthest point from Foucault on this score.
There are quite a few different understandings of 'ideology' in Marx (and Marxism). Foucault's work (at least from Discipline & Punish through to the '80s) is close to aspects of Althusser's theory of ideology, especially the materiality of ideology aspect. In Deleuze's reading of Foucault it is perhaps even closer, as Warren Montag pointed out in his old essay on Althusser and Foucault.
On 09/02/2012, at 9:33 AM, Fouad Kalouche wrote:
> Sorry, I do not understand the relation you are alluding to.
>
> F. Is expanding and transforming the concept of ideology to encompass cultural, political, economic, social and other domains of historical production, where ontology englobes epistemology.
>
> Arguably, he is being more Marxian than the early Marx of the German Ideology by revisiting how Marxian "production" takes place in a an ontology of multiplicity and becoming instead of relying on a teleological and linear and determined view of development with beginning and end. This is what transformation is.
>
> F.
>
>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:49:44 -0600
>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>>
>> Fouad how would you distinguish this from the "end of ideology" thesis
>> popular in neoconservative and liberal circles.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Fouad Kalouche <fkalouche@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Foucault addresses Marxian approaches to ideology most directly in Truth and Juridical forms, in 1975, and this is the first moment of his engagement with a genealogy of truth in forms of testing, inquiry, and experimentation--where truth relations are proven to be part of the fabric of historical Ontologies and not just produced by modes of production.
>>>
>>> A second moment of the study of regimes of truth as forms of veridiction engaged in subjectivization starts with the 1980 college de France course (subjectivite et verite) and ends with the 1984 course (courage de la verite) and this moment shapes the later published ,works of F. (History of sexuality, etc.).
>>>
>>> These are just the primary sources. Someone will surely help out with secondary sources.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Fouad Kalouche
>>>
>>> P.s. does anyone know anything about the Genet and Sade paper that Foucault supposedly destroyed upon his return from Sweden? Anything written about the subject?
>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:05:08 -0600
>>>> From: aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Ideology and Consciousness
>>>>
>>>> An old friend gave me three copies of Ideology and Consciousness
>>>> issues from the late 70's and early 80's. There are essays in there by
>>>> Nikolas Rose, Jacques Donzelot, and Castel (I think). An early version
>>>> of Foucault's famous "Governmentality" lecture is in one of them as
>>>> well.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Kevin Turner <kevin.turner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> Does anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of copies of the journal "Ideology and Consciousness," preferably as scanned pdfs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best, Kevin.
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: goran.gaber@xxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Sent: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:26:37 +0100
>>>>>> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [Foucault-L] Regimes of truth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking for Foucault's own clarifications on the concept "regime de
>>>>>> verite" as well as any other secondary sources on this matter - would be
>>>>>> very grateful for bibliography indications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best, Goran
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
>>>>> TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chathan Vemuri
>>>>
>>>> 900 58th Street
>>>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>>>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> (319)-512-9318
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chathan Vemuri
>>
>> 900 58th Street
>> West Des Moines, IA 50266
>> chathan-vemuri@xxxxxxxxx
>> (319)-512-9318
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list