Fair enough. Have fun boys (smile and a wink)
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Ditto what Jeffrey said
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Jeffrey Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > I would agree with Chetan: Bergson is Deleuze's main infuence and they
> > certainly informeed each other. And for sure, Foucault knew Bergson's
> work.
> > But, to continue ithis way, it seems that in Foucault's complete Dits et
> > Ecrits, whe find the first reference to Bergson in a paper titled "Ariane
> > s'est pendue", an article written for Le Nouvel Observateur (6/4/1969)
> about
> > Deleuze's Différence et Répétition...
> >
> > But, the question was about Bergson's Creative Evolution as the source
> > material of The order of things, and I really don't see any evidence to
> > confirm this hypothesis, philosophically nor regarding the Foucault's
> > archives.
> > About the wuotes I could read, I would emphasise that rather than
> Bergson,
> > when Foucault talks about the "small number of authors with whom one
> thinks,
> > with whom one works, but on whom one does not write", this quote is
> > abstracted from a posthume interview (1984) in which Foucault was asked
> > about the importance of Heidegger in his work, and he answered: "My
> entire *
> > philosophical* development was determined by my reading of Heidegger".
> The
> > other author on whom he didn't wrote much was Nietzsche, the one who
> > proviked his "philosophical shock".
> >
> > To enter a more philosophical argument, his methodological perspective on
> > history in The Order Of Things can't fit with Bergson's principle
> following
> > which history of intelligence is considered as a continued linear
> progress.
> > Bergson's Creative Evolution présupposes some kind of retrojective
> > teleology, that is precisely the form of rationality from which Foucault
> > tries to escape by trying to make the history of "problematisation"...
> >
> > Cordially
> > Jeffrey Tallane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/10/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >> The most connection I can draw is that Deleuze and Foucault mutually
> >> informed each other during their early phases, and Bergson was a
> >> strong influence on Deleuze.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Chetan Vemuri
> >> <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > That says more about overlap in ideas than it does about any possible
> >> > impact of Bergson on Foucault.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
> >> >> Foucault, but there is one easy solution to this. Instead of going
> back
> >> and
> >> >> forth wondering if Foucault was influenced by him in In The Order of
> >> Things,
> >> >> what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with
> eachother
> >> >> now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure.
> If
> >> >> nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is
> >> worth
> >> >> looking closer at his masks). See what you end up with and how that
> >> changes
> >> >> your perspective on the other - you may find something that you
> weren't
> >> >> expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better
> >> understanding
> >> >> someone's perspective.
> >> >>
> >> >> Good Luck,
> >> >>
> >> >> Teresa
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey Tallane <
> linactuel@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hello
> >> >>> I really don't think Bergson was a source material for the order of
> >> things.
> >> >>> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and
> >> Foucault,
> >> >>> particularly regarding the order of things where the conceptions of
> >> history
> >> >>> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective.
> >> Rather
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger,
> >> Borges...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jeffrey Tallane
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <
> >> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > >wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The
> >> Order
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> >> >>> passages
> >> >>> > > taken from each of them:
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > "All around conceptual thought there remains an indistinct
> fringe
> >> which
> >> >>> > > recalls its origin."
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in
> which
> >> it
> >> >>> > never
> >> >>> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > All the best.
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with
> whom
> >> >>> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not
> write."
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> >> >>> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> >> >>> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> >> >>> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> >> >>> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> >> >>> > > > also throw
> >> >>> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> >> >>> > > > could also
> >> >>> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> >> >>> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> >> >>> > > > with parallel
> >> >>> > > > issues.
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> >> >>> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > > wrote:
> >> >>> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> >> >>> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> >> >>> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> >> >>> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> >> >>> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> >> >>> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> >> >>> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> >> >>> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> >> >>> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> >> >>> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> >> >>> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> >> >>> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> >> >>> > > > before the war.
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > > All the best.
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <
> zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > wrote:
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> >> >>> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> >> >>> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> >> >>> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> >> >>> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> >> >>> > > > *epistme
> >> >>> > > > >> *and on the major
> >> >>> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> >> >>> > > > you to
> >> >>> > > > >> kindly identify the
> >> >>> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> >> >>> > > > >>
> >> >>> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> >> >>> > > > >> Pakistan
> >> >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> > > > >>
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > > --
> >> >>> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> >> >>> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> >> >>> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > > > (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> >> >>> > > > to change the world"
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > --
> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Chetan Vemuri
> >> > West Des Moines, IA
> >> > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >> > (319)-512-9318
> >> > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change
> the
> >> world"
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chetan Vemuri
> >> West Des Moines, IA
> >> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >> (319)-512-9318
> >> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> >> world"
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chetan Vemuri
> West Des Moines, IA
> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> (319)-512-9318
> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> world"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Ditto what Jeffrey said
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Jeffrey Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > I would agree with Chetan: Bergson is Deleuze's main infuence and they
> > certainly informeed each other. And for sure, Foucault knew Bergson's
> work.
> > But, to continue ithis way, it seems that in Foucault's complete Dits et
> > Ecrits, whe find the first reference to Bergson in a paper titled "Ariane
> > s'est pendue", an article written for Le Nouvel Observateur (6/4/1969)
> about
> > Deleuze's Différence et Répétition...
> >
> > But, the question was about Bergson's Creative Evolution as the source
> > material of The order of things, and I really don't see any evidence to
> > confirm this hypothesis, philosophically nor regarding the Foucault's
> > archives.
> > About the wuotes I could read, I would emphasise that rather than
> Bergson,
> > when Foucault talks about the "small number of authors with whom one
> thinks,
> > with whom one works, but on whom one does not write", this quote is
> > abstracted from a posthume interview (1984) in which Foucault was asked
> > about the importance of Heidegger in his work, and he answered: "My
> entire *
> > philosophical* development was determined by my reading of Heidegger".
> The
> > other author on whom he didn't wrote much was Nietzsche, the one who
> > proviked his "philosophical shock".
> >
> > To enter a more philosophical argument, his methodological perspective on
> > history in The Order Of Things can't fit with Bergson's principle
> following
> > which history of intelligence is considered as a continued linear
> progress.
> > Bergson's Creative Evolution présupposes some kind of retrojective
> > teleology, that is precisely the form of rationality from which Foucault
> > tries to escape by trying to make the history of "problematisation"...
> >
> > Cordially
> > Jeffrey Tallane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/10/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >> The most connection I can draw is that Deleuze and Foucault mutually
> >> informed each other during their early phases, and Bergson was a
> >> strong influence on Deleuze.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Chetan Vemuri
> >> <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > That says more about overlap in ideas than it does about any possible
> >> > impact of Bergson on Foucault.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
> >> >> Foucault, but there is one easy solution to this. Instead of going
> back
> >> and
> >> >> forth wondering if Foucault was influenced by him in In The Order of
> >> Things,
> >> >> what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with
> eachother
> >> >> now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure.
> If
> >> >> nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is
> >> worth
> >> >> looking closer at his masks). See what you end up with and how that
> >> changes
> >> >> your perspective on the other - you may find something that you
> weren't
> >> >> expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better
> >> understanding
> >> >> someone's perspective.
> >> >>
> >> >> Good Luck,
> >> >>
> >> >> Teresa
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey Tallane <
> linactuel@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hello
> >> >>> I really don't think Bergson was a source material for the order of
> >> things.
> >> >>> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and
> >> Foucault,
> >> >>> particularly regarding the order of things where the conceptions of
> >> history
> >> >>> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective.
> >> Rather
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger,
> >> Borges...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jeffrey Tallane
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <
> >> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > >wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The
> >> Order
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> >> >>> passages
> >> >>> > > taken from each of them:
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > "All around conceptual thought there remains an indistinct
> fringe
> >> which
> >> >>> > > recalls its origin."
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in
> which
> >> it
> >> >>> > never
> >> >>> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > All the best.
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with
> whom
> >> >>> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not
> write."
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> >> >>> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> >> >>> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> >> >>> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> >> >>> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> >> >>> > > > also throw
> >> >>> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> >> >>> > > > could also
> >> >>> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> >> >>> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> >> >>> > > > with parallel
> >> >>> > > > issues.
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> >> >>> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > > wrote:
> >> >>> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> >> >>> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> >> >>> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> >> >>> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> >> >>> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> >> >>> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> >> >>> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> >> >>> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> >> >>> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> >> >>> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> >> >>> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> >> >>> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> >> >>> > > > before the war.
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > > All the best.
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <
> zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > wrote:
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> >> >>> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> >> >>> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> >> >>> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> >> >>> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> >> >>> > > > *epistme
> >> >>> > > > >> *and on the major
> >> >>> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> >> >>> > > > you to
> >> >>> > > > >> kindly identify the
> >> >>> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> >> >>> > > > >>
> >> >>> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> >> >>> > > > >> Pakistan
> >> >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> > > > >>
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > > --
> >> >>> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> >> >>> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> >> >>> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> > > > (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> >>> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> >> >>> > > > to change the world"
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> > > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > --
> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Chetan Vemuri
> >> > West Des Moines, IA
> >> > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >> > (319)-512-9318
> >> > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change
> the
> >> world"
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chetan Vemuri
> >> West Des Moines, IA
> >> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >> (319)-512-9318
> >> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> >> world"
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chetan Vemuri
> West Des Moines, IA
> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> (319)-512-9318
> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> world"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>