I would agree with Chetan: Bergson is Deleuze's main infuence and they
certainly informeed each other. And for sure, Foucault knew Bergson's work.
But, to continue ithis way, it seems that in Foucault's complete Dits et
Ecrits, whe find the first reference to Bergson in a paper titled "Ariane
s'est pendue", an article written for Le Nouvel Observateur (6/4/1969) about
Deleuze's Différence et Répétition...
But, the question was about Bergson's Creative Evolution as the source
material of The order of things, and I really don't see any evidence to
confirm this hypothesis, philosophically nor regarding the Foucault's
archives.
About the wuotes I could read, I would emphasise that rather than Bergson,
when Foucault talks about the "small number of authors with whom one thinks,
with whom one works, but on whom one does not write", this quote is
abstracted from a posthume interview (1984) in which Foucault was asked
about the importance of Heidegger in his work, and he answered: "My entire *
philosophical* development was determined by my reading of Heidegger". The
other author on whom he didn't wrote much was Nietzsche, the one who
proviked his "philosophical shock".
To enter a more philosophical argument, his methodological perspective on
history in The Order Of Things can't fit with Bergson's principle following
which history of intelligence is considered as a continued linear progress.
Bergson's Creative Evolution présupposes some kind of retrojective
teleology, that is precisely the form of rationality from which Foucault
tries to escape by trying to make the history of "problematisation"...
Cordially
Jeffrey Tallane
2010/10/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> The most connection I can draw is that Deleuze and Foucault mutually
> informed each other during their early phases, and Bergson was a
> strong influence on Deleuze.
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Chetan Vemuri
> <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > That says more about overlap in ideas than it does about any possible
> > impact of Bergson on Foucault.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
> >> Foucault, but there is one easy solution to this. Instead of going back
> and
> >> forth wondering if Foucault was influenced by him in In The Order of
> Things,
> >> what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with eachother
> >> now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure. If
> >> nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is
> worth
> >> looking closer at his masks). See what you end up with and how that
> changes
> >> your perspective on the other - you may find something that you weren't
> >> expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better
> understanding
> >> someone's perspective.
> >>
> >> Good Luck,
> >>
> >> Teresa
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello
> >>> I really don't think Bergson was a source material for the order of
> things.
> >>> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and
> Foucault,
> >>> particularly regarding the order of things where the conceptions of
> history
> >>> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective.
> Rather
> >>> for
> >>> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger,
> Borges...
> >>>
> >>> Jeffrey Tallane
> >>>
> >>> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
> >>>
> >>> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <
> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > >wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The
> Order
> >>> of
> >>> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> >>> passages
> >>> > > taken from each of them:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > "All around conceptual thought there remains an indistinct fringe
> which
> >>> > > recalls its origin."
> >>> > >
> >>> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in which
> it
> >>> > never
> >>> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> >>> > >
> >>> > > All the best.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with whom
> >>> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not write."
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> >>> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> >>> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> >>> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> >>> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> >>> > > > also throw
> >>> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> >>> > > > could also
> >>> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> >>> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> >>> > > > with parallel
> >>> > > > issues.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> >>> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> >>> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> >>> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> >>> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> >>> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> >>> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> >>> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> >>> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> >>> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> >>> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> >>> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> >>> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> >>> > > > before the war.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > All the best.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> >>> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> >>> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> >>> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> >>> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> >>> > > > *epistme
> >>> > > > >> *and on the major
> >>> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> >>> > > > you to
> >>> > > > >> kindly identify the
> >>> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> >>> > > > >>
> >>> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> >>> > > > >> Pakistan
> >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> > > > >>
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > --
> >>> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> >>> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> >>> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >>> > > > (319)-512-9318
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> >>> > > > to change the world"
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> >
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chetan Vemuri
> > West Des Moines, IA
> > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > (319)-512-9318
> > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> world"
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chetan Vemuri
> West Des Moines, IA
> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> (319)-512-9318
> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> world"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
certainly informeed each other. And for sure, Foucault knew Bergson's work.
But, to continue ithis way, it seems that in Foucault's complete Dits et
Ecrits, whe find the first reference to Bergson in a paper titled "Ariane
s'est pendue", an article written for Le Nouvel Observateur (6/4/1969) about
Deleuze's Différence et Répétition...
But, the question was about Bergson's Creative Evolution as the source
material of The order of things, and I really don't see any evidence to
confirm this hypothesis, philosophically nor regarding the Foucault's
archives.
About the wuotes I could read, I would emphasise that rather than Bergson,
when Foucault talks about the "small number of authors with whom one thinks,
with whom one works, but on whom one does not write", this quote is
abstracted from a posthume interview (1984) in which Foucault was asked
about the importance of Heidegger in his work, and he answered: "My entire *
philosophical* development was determined by my reading of Heidegger". The
other author on whom he didn't wrote much was Nietzsche, the one who
proviked his "philosophical shock".
To enter a more philosophical argument, his methodological perspective on
history in The Order Of Things can't fit with Bergson's principle following
which history of intelligence is considered as a continued linear progress.
Bergson's Creative Evolution présupposes some kind of retrojective
teleology, that is precisely the form of rationality from which Foucault
tries to escape by trying to make the history of "problematisation"...
Cordially
Jeffrey Tallane
2010/10/17 Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> The most connection I can draw is that Deleuze and Foucault mutually
> informed each other during their early phases, and Bergson was a
> strong influence on Deleuze.
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Chetan Vemuri
> <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > That says more about overlap in ideas than it does about any possible
> > impact of Bergson on Foucault.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I don't think that you can so easily discount Bergson's influence on
> >> Foucault, but there is one easy solution to this. Instead of going back
> and
> >> forth wondering if Foucault was influenced by him in In The Order of
> Things,
> >> what would happen if you just placed them in conversation with eachother
> >> now? (Read closely and between the lines; read method and structure. If
> >> nothing else Foucault seems to enjoy playing different roles, it is
> worth
> >> looking closer at his masks). See what you end up with and how that
> changes
> >> your perspective on the other - you may find something that you weren't
> >> expecting, which is the point after all in regards to better
> understanding
> >> someone's perspective.
> >>
> >> Good Luck,
> >>
> >> Teresa
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jeffrey Tallane <linactuel@xxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello
> >>> I really don't think Bergson was a source material for the order of
> things.
> >>> Certainly there can't be anything in common between Bergson and
> Foucault,
> >>> particularly regarding the order of things where the conceptions of
> history
> >>> and time is in total contradiction with a bergsonian perspective.
> Rather
> >>> for
> >>> sourcers you should look at Georges Dumézil, Martin Heidegger,
> Borges...
> >>>
> >>> Jeffrey Tallane
> >>>
> >>> 2010/10/6 Allen Miller <pamiller@xxxxxx>
> >>>
> >>> > Thanks, that's really useful.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, michael bibby <
> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > >wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Perhaps to give an indication of how Creative Evolution and The
> Order
> >>> of
> >>> > > Things can be read together it is sufficient to juxtapose these
> >>> passages
> >>> > > taken from each of them:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > "All around conceptual thought there remains an indistinct fringe
> which
> >>> > > recalls its origin."
> >>> > >
> >>> > > "that space which is, for thought, on the otherside, but in which
> it
> >>> > never
> >>> > > ceased to think from the very beginning."
> >>> > >
> >>> > > All the best.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > "I think it’s important to have a small number of authors with whom
> >>> > > one thinks, with whom one works, but on whom one does not write."
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > From: Chetan Vemuri <aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > Subject: Re: [Foucault-L] Primary works
> >>> > > > To: "Mailing-list" <foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > Received: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 5:39 AM
> >>> > > > Is Bergson really necessary in terms
> >>> > > > of Foucault's sources? What about
> >>> > > > The Normal and the Pathological by Georges Canguilhem? I'd
> >>> > > > also throw
> >>> > > > in anything by Gaston Bachelard. If you're interested, you
> >>> > > > could also
> >>> > > > read Paul Feyeraband. He's not a Foucauldian but he was
> >>> > > > contemparaneous, was influenced by Bachelard, and dealt
> >>> > > > with parallel
> >>> > > > issues.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 4:17 AM, michael bibby <
> >>> shmickeyd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > > I can do the opposite Zulfiqar: rather than provide
> >>> > > > you with secondary material on the Order of Things (no doubt
> >>> > > > your aware of the problems such 'commentary' poses, given
> >>> > > > the treatment which 'commentary' receives there), I can
> >>> > > > provide you with one of the source materials for this book,
> >>> > > > one of those books which Foucault seems to have been working
> >>> > > > closely with and writing his own alongside, and that is
> >>> > > > Henry Bergson's Creative Evolution, writen in 1907 and
> >>> > > > canonical for two generations of European scholars before it
> >>> > > > fell into relative obscurity. Another book worth taking a
> >>> > > > look at in this connection is Oswald Spengler's Decline of
> >>> > > > the West, writen in 1918 and enjoying a similiar popularity
> >>> > > > before the war.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > All the best.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > --- On Tue, 28/9/10, Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >> From: Zulfiqar Ali Philosophy <zali@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > > > >> Subject: [Foucault-L] secondary works
> >>> > > > >> To: foucault-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > > > >> Received: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010, 5:30 PM
> >>> > > > >> I have recently finished my Ph. D.
> >>> > > > >> work on Foucault in relation to Marx. I
> >>> > > > >> am looking for major critiques on the issue of
> >>> > > > *epistme
> >>> > > > >> *and on the major
> >>> > > > >> argument of The Order of Things. I request all of
> >>> > > > you to
> >>> > > > >> kindly identify the
> >>> > > > >> books or articles in this regard.
> >>> > > > >>
> >>> > > > >> Zulfiqar Ali
> >>> > > > >> Pakistan
> >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> > > > >>
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > --
> >>> > > > Chetan Vemuri
> >>> > > > West Des Moines, IA
> >>> > > > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> >>> > > > (319)-512-9318
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (319)-512-9318
> >>> > end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >>> > > > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want
> >>> > > > to change the world"
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Foucault-L mailing list
> >>> >
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Foucault-L mailing list
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chetan Vemuri
> > West Des Moines, IA
> > aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> > (319)-512-9318
> > "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> world"
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chetan Vemuri
> West Des Moines, IA
> aryavartacnsrn@xxxxxxxxx
> (319)-512-9318
> "You say you want a Revolution! Well you know, we all want to change the
> world"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>