I don't think he was inciting us to defend society in 1976 either but as
you say interpretation is a question.
Arianna
The form of the imperative and the form of the bare infinitive (without
> 'to') are identical in English - and identical to most present tense forms
> are the same, with the exception of third person singular. So it's a
> question of interpretation. Given the infinitives in the original French,
> I
> think infinitives are the most parsimonious solution in the English. The
> imperative doesn't quite make sense here, does it? He's not enjoining us
> to
> discipline and punish...
> Tim
>
>
>
> On 9/5/09 12:52 AM, "ari@xxxxxxxx" <ari@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I interpret the verbs as being in the imperative tense.
>>
>>> The verbs in 'Discipline and Punish' are both infinitives, not present
>>> tense
>>> verbs. English has two infinitive forms, with and without 'to'; words
>>> like
>>> 'can', 'must', etc require the bare infinitive as it is called,
>>> otherwise
>>> the 'infinitive without 'to''. So from the grammatical point of view
>>> we
>>> could have had 'Survey and Punish', though of course there are
>>> objections
>>> to
>>> 'survey' on other grounds, as various people have already pointed out.
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/5/09 11:33 PM, "David Shumway" <shumway@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The English translation is DISCIPLINE AND PUNISH, not "punishment."
>>>> Both terms are verbs, but not infinitives as are those in the French
>>>> title. There is no exact equivalent to "Surveiller" in English; it
>>>> does
>>>> not mean surveillance in the usual sense of that word in English.
>>>> Moreover a title that used the exact cognates, "To survey and to
>>>> punish," would neither be clear nor catchy. Thus the choice of present
>>>> tense verbs, for which again, "survey" does not work. Finally, one
>>>> could
>>>> argue that the English title actually better reflects the focus of the
>>>> book because "discipline" is a more important concept there than is
>>>> surveillance.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Tamir Sorek wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone can help me to solve the following puzzle: Why did Michel
>>>>> Foucault ask to translate the title of his book "Surveiller Et Punir"
>>>>> to
>>>>> "Discipline and Punishment" in English, instead of "Surveillance and
>>>>> Punishment"? Did he think that his French title was misunderstood?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tamir Sorek
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Professor Tim McNamara
>>> Discipline Chair, Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
>>> School of Languages and Linguistics
>>> The University of Melbourne
>>> Victoria 3010
>>> Australia
>>> Tel (+ 61 3) 8344 4207
>>> Fax (+ 61 3) 8344 8990
>>> Web:
>>> www.linguistics.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/profiles/mcnamara/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> --
> Professor Tim McNamara
> Discipline Chair, Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
> School of Languages and Linguistics
> The University of Melbourne
> Victoria 3010
> Australia
> Tel (+ 61 3) 8344 4207
> Fax (+ 61 3) 8344 8990
> Web:
> www.linguistics.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/profiles/mcnamara/index.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
>
you say interpretation is a question.
Arianna
The form of the imperative and the form of the bare infinitive (without
> 'to') are identical in English - and identical to most present tense forms
> are the same, with the exception of third person singular. So it's a
> question of interpretation. Given the infinitives in the original French,
> I
> think infinitives are the most parsimonious solution in the English. The
> imperative doesn't quite make sense here, does it? He's not enjoining us
> to
> discipline and punish...
> Tim
>
>
>
> On 9/5/09 12:52 AM, "ari@xxxxxxxx" <ari@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I interpret the verbs as being in the imperative tense.
>>
>>> The verbs in 'Discipline and Punish' are both infinitives, not present
>>> tense
>>> verbs. English has two infinitive forms, with and without 'to'; words
>>> like
>>> 'can', 'must', etc require the bare infinitive as it is called,
>>> otherwise
>>> the 'infinitive without 'to''. So from the grammatical point of view
>>> we
>>> could have had 'Survey and Punish', though of course there are
>>> objections
>>> to
>>> 'survey' on other grounds, as various people have already pointed out.
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/5/09 11:33 PM, "David Shumway" <shumway@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The English translation is DISCIPLINE AND PUNISH, not "punishment."
>>>> Both terms are verbs, but not infinitives as are those in the French
>>>> title. There is no exact equivalent to "Surveiller" in English; it
>>>> does
>>>> not mean surveillance in the usual sense of that word in English.
>>>> Moreover a title that used the exact cognates, "To survey and to
>>>> punish," would neither be clear nor catchy. Thus the choice of present
>>>> tense verbs, for which again, "survey" does not work. Finally, one
>>>> could
>>>> argue that the English title actually better reflects the focus of the
>>>> book because "discipline" is a more important concept there than is
>>>> surveillance.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Tamir Sorek wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone can help me to solve the following puzzle: Why did Michel
>>>>> Foucault ask to translate the title of his book "Surveiller Et Punir"
>>>>> to
>>>>> "Discipline and Punishment" in English, instead of "Surveillance and
>>>>> Punishment"? Did he think that his French title was misunderstood?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tamir Sorek
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Professor Tim McNamara
>>> Discipline Chair, Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
>>> School of Languages and Linguistics
>>> The University of Melbourne
>>> Victoria 3010
>>> Australia
>>> Tel (+ 61 3) 8344 4207
>>> Fax (+ 61 3) 8344 8990
>>> Web:
>>> www.linguistics.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/profiles/mcnamara/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foucault-L mailing list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foucault-L mailing list
>
> --
> Professor Tim McNamara
> Discipline Chair, Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
> School of Languages and Linguistics
> The University of Melbourne
> Victoria 3010
> Australia
> Tel (+ 61 3) 8344 4207
> Fax (+ 61 3) 8344 8990
> Web:
> www.linguistics.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/profiles/mcnamara/index.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Foucault-L mailing list
>
>